Trauma Over Past Suicidal Experiences-People Being Non Caring Knowing This

[Nervtine]

 In a nutshell, my 2017 was a suicidal tendency feast I gorged myself on. I've processed the why of these things, and can even laugh off some of the reasons why. But sometimes, when I allow myself to think of them, I get paralyzed with fear I will become that necrotic again. This gets better the more time passes and the more I work on myself. 

What traumatized me the most out of this is people out right not believing I was this way, not caring me and offering me little compassion when I had a hard time showing myself any. And I still feel like I need to apologize to them for being overbearing and for hurting them during my toxic lashings out- but that isn't possible. 

One went to bed while I was telling him I was seriously going to do it, woke up the next morning saying he knew he should be groveling, but wasn't and didn't feel sorry. The other would just tell me to shut up and that they didn't want to deal with me. Both have espoused that they cared a lot, or that they didn't at all. I no longer talk to these people (out of my choice-they know they really aren't welcome talking to me again either) but I still think about them a lot.

One in particular I still have a flicker of desire to be friends with-the one in the first example- even though I know that's not realistic and in another way I don't desire to think about the ever again. I do not think these people are bad, nor completely misguided. We all used our hurt to hurt eachother I think.

What are some was you guys move on from difficult things like this? And what are some insights you think I may be lacking in? 

[Markus]

@Nervtine My early 2017 was near-suicidal. I definitely mistreated some people and have felt a lot of guilt about it. I've also had a strong desire to reconnect and set things right but realistically I intuit these people would just re-experience and deepen their negative reactions towards me. So it's best we all move on with our lives. One of the people I wronged, and frightened even, I had feelings for. It took over a year to get mostly over that. I'm gonna give a personal anecdote, with no real advice. But maybe there's something to learn from this.

First of all I didn't want to feel the hurt I'd been caused, and kept having moralizing thoughts about certain people. How what they did was wrong. Then the next part, along with acknowledging some of the hurt, was realizing people had legitimate reasons to be upset at me, as looking back at my behaviour I said some selfish, inconsiderate and angry things. Then that opened up a lot of guilt, which took a very long time to clear. It'd keep coming up month after month at random times.

Then as I gained more clarity in life I started to accept I didn't really have a choice to do anything else. There were strong reasons behind why I messed up. Judging myself for being an idiot in a near-suicidally depressed mindset doesn't make much sense. And furthermore, the person I had the biggest conflict with had mental health issues herself. So, instead of beating myself down for being wrong I started to get that it is not that simple. It's just two people with degrees of dysfunction getting triggered by one another. My feelings of hatred and anger went away almost completely.

But it took quite a bit more time to let go of attachment to the positive feelings I had for her. The neediness I had. Because because of those she kept occupying my mind and I kept wishing I could do something, when it was clearly futile. Any kind of relationship between us wasn't meant to be. And my positive and fond feelings for her won't help her in any way. Craving those feelings is just torturing me at this point. It felt sad but at some point I was like "fuck it" and I became free from this. I'm not saying there aren't any subconscious fragments that could act up at times but by and large I have no attachment to her any more.

[ajasatya]

7 hours ago, Nervtine said:

What are some was you guys move on from difficult things like this? And what are some insights you think I may be lacking in?

the hardest part is growing up and letting go of the demand for caring, kindness and compassion. those are things that you can practice and offer. the moment you demand them, you make others unable to practice real Love, which should be spontaneous.

[Nervtine]

@Markus I had to do a double take reading your story, because it was almost identical to mine. Down to having feelings for one of them, and that they had mental issues themselves. It is reassuring knowing I am not the only one who has gone through this, and that one can move on from it. Thank you for your wisdom, Markrus, it will defiantly be something I remember when I try to obsess over the topic again. 

@ajasatya A profound insight I can't believe I hadn't considered, thank you for your insight.  

 

[Markus]

@Nervtine ❤

 

[Dumivid]

@Nervtine @Markus

Funny.

The problem we think is the most special one is actually the most common one. I had a similar story.
Early 2017.
Letting people down.
Feeling suicidal.
Feeling abandoned.
Feeling very strong anger and sorrow at the same time.
In the end, let go, find some seeds of peace, move one, learn the lessons.

Now, the good news, you had a painfull experience and you have grown,
The even better news, in the future this will become even better!

Just think about this for a second.
What are the chances that 3 different people, with very similar life situation, come up on same place and time?
If you think you are alone in your pain, well, you are not. We are right here.
 

On 08.03.2019 at 4:52 AM, Nervtine said:

What are some was you guys move on from difficult things like this? And what are some insights you think I may be lacking in? 

And answering direct you question.
Try all things you think you need to try until you surrender. That’s it, just give up. For myself I found that this was the right choice, yet I took me 13 months to realize it.

In addition, another good news, now you have space for new stuff in your life! New practices (like art), new people (like us <3 or some similar minded IRL dudes), now you have room to think (or not, #NoMind, #TheBuddhaPath). Just chose carefully, do not replace one addiction (approval and love from past friends) with a new one (people pleasing to get more affection).

 

[Nervtine]

 

3 hours ago, Dumivid said:

Just think about this for a second.
What are the chances that 3 different people, with very similar life situation, come up on same place and time?
If you think you are alone in your pain, well, you are not. We are right here.
 

@Dumivid That is extremely inspiring and helpful. Though I feel awful knowing you guys went through the same thing (if your situation was anything like mine, it was the peak of my dysfunctional behaviors and the most emotional pain I've ever had in my life) it immediately lifts some of the pain. Like in development work when you finally wake up to a truth you dismissed before, but as a whole was really obvious. 

3 hours ago, Dumivid said:

 

In addition, another good news, now you have space for new stuff in your life! New practices (like art), new people (like us <3 or some similar minded IRL dudes), now you have room to think (or not, #NoMind, #TheBuddhaPath). Just chose carefully, do not replace one addiction (approval and love from past friends) with a new one (people pleasing to get more affection).

 

This is also very true and something to think about(I laughed pretty hard when I read or not because that's exactly what I've been working on). And is also a healthy way to look at this instead of wallowing like I spent last year doing. Good call on the replacing addiction bit, I already see how I kinda went down that path. Thankfully only briefly, though I am sure I will find out I deceived myself about that once again in like a month.  The problem we think is the most special is actually the most common one might just make in into my writing one of these days, because its simple profundity really got to me, and I am sure others would benefit. 

@Markus Thank you again for the wisdom, and affirming I'm not alone. It really is crazy that all three of us happened to stumble across this same place. That or it's the most ordinary thing that couldn't have happened any other way- I still perceive it as something special. 

 

 I defiantly will keep an eye out for more wisdom from each of you in the future! And can get around to sharing any of my wisdom if you ever felt the need to seek it out! 

[Dumivid]

@Nervtine

There is no need to feel sorry for us or for yourself. Yes, this experience was the most emotionally damaging experience in my life but right now, we are free to choose how to react. The experience itself is gone, long time ago.

In addition, the most simple truth are the most hard to grasp. If you will stick with self-actualization some time, you will see that before you even notice “one simple life changing advice”, you will stumble upon it like hundreds of times. Then another hundred until you use it. Then another hundred until you master it. Obviously, I am over exaggerating, but you get the idea.

[JohnnyBravo]

For the life of me, sometimes I dont know how or why I chose to keep living life. It makes little sense.

I had a troubling upbringing. Parents that didnt care. A school with an agenda to make me feel inferior. A religion that shamed me for even smiling metaphorically.

When I was 15, I wanted a wife.

16 never happened.

17 still not.

18 no.

19 I felt suicidal. "Enough is enough, i refuse to go on. Why am i going to torture myself? I am pathetic."

I didnt kill myself at 19.

If I killed myself at 19, I never would have had the experience of true love from a girl when I hit 21.

My 15- 19 year old self would never have believed such a reality was posisble at all ever. But it happener even against my lack of self esteem and sensibility.

I know that in 5 years from now, there are going to be some moments in life that are pure heaven.

I won't ever see them if I exit. I refuse to exit until i get them.

Henry Rollins once said that the thing that stopped him from suicide was raw spite towards the life Fate had given him.

He chose to remain alive out of a "fuck you" to the universe.

Find relief from your pain, but stay with us humans. We arent bad as a species and we need each other.

[Nervtine]

@Dumivid This is all so crazy- this is another thing that's been on my mind. How the truth is blatantly in front of us the whole time, (the best way to hide a lie is to convince you it was concealed in the first place) and how I'll dismiss advice for years until I find myself embodying it.

I don't know about you, but along this vein I usually find that I've mentally mocked people who, in reality were higher in me in development. But it doesn't ever look that way-you label them one way or another to feel better about yourself- give it two years and I am exactly where that person was. A good example I have is when I was younger, I cracked jokes about vegetarians and denounced their life style (I'm not here to debate if these diets are righteous or anything else: who knows, I may still find out I am wrong, it's a running theme).                                                                       

When I was younger, I found myself in a place where I had fully transitioned (literally over night, I know you aren't supposed to, but I am one of the rarer people I know who can makes changes abruptly) and fondly held those beliefs I laughed at for years. Over the next seven years I would of course, think the whole green, vegan lifestyle was going a little far. I mean really, it wasn't convenient and was extremist, right...? Yeah, last February I made another change.

The whole point of this usually is I try to look towards what group I am making fun of now, because a lot of the time, that's where I am headed. At one point I would have thought a site like this was melodramatic and full of wish-fullfilling bullshit. Life was just was life is, nothing more. I didn't see advantages in laying out feelings, discussing life purpose or entertaining mystical elements was anything but laughable. I mean, people on the internet really couldn't give good advice, right...? And here I am. Next is probably becoming way more airy-fairy relaxed and exercising non-attachment. I used to think these were limiting and ridiculous, but am just coming over that hill now. 

And I come from a family that supports all the things I am doing now! I have heard support for every single thing I am working towards a thousand times, and have had so much help along the way but of course, no one understood me. For years I thought they were holding me back and didn't have any good advice, now things have come full circle and I am building a real relationship with my mother for the first time in my life over all this.

For me, at least half the truths I believe now; truths I fought for and literally bled over- I had been told a hundred times by her. The truth was literally a room down from me, but my stubborn ass had to be a misunderstood hero in my story. In reality I was a toxic victim who hurt others with my hurt and avoidance of emotional mastery. 

 

 If you got through all that, thank you. I am still fairly new to spilling my guts, and I hope at least something there made sense. That or it made you laugh, because really, sometimes that's all we need to get ourselves in the mindspace to see our own bullshit. That experience was the most emotionally damaging for me too. Objectively speaking, it isn't the worst thing I've experienced. It was a nuke to previous held beliefs and my ego though- and boy, does anything hurt more than that backlash that comes back 10 times as hard. That suffering really was a gift though. Without it, I wouldn't have considered going down the path I did today.                                                                                                                                           

Though I'd never want to relive 2017, I don't think I'd change anything about it. It's a strong reminder of what an non-actualized life is like. Peeling back the layers of those 365 days, I've gained a lot of wisdom. But I can't do that forever, and know it's time I move on. I used to justify obsessing over it as analyzing my behavior so I didn't make the same mistake-a pass for the first 100 times, sure. But now it is robbing me of my present, and is time to move on. Whatever is going to happen now, happens. I'm done disrupting the stream of my life and suffering. 

 

1 hour ago, JohnnyBravo said:

He chose to remain alive out of a "fuck you" to the universe.

Find relief from your pain, but stay with us humans. We arent bad as a species and we need each other.

@JohnnyBravo That first bit really resonates with me. I used to be a vindictive little shit, and that was my train of thought for a while. 

And I'm planning on staying for now. When I make plans though, usually the opposite will happen-like with this I'll probably be magicked into a toad or I decide to live out my days in a cave. With my luck, probably both. Thank you for your story and insight. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Nervtine

[Dumivid]

@Nervtine
 

44 minutes ago, Nervtine said:

The whole point of this usually is I try to look towards what group I am making fun of now, because a lot of the time, that's where I am headed.

For me is usually the group I hate the most. Like marketing guys (because I want to make and sell video games and I considered advertising as evil), like life couches (because they think they know the best) and the worst of the worst, PUA community and overall casual sex culture (I have huge problems in this part of life so I hate them from the deepest side of my soul, or at least I did it in the past). And yes, is very funny how in time you become what you fear the most, and right now I want to do pick just for the sake of my personal grow.

44 minutes ago, Nervtine said:

I don't know about you, but along this vein I usually find that I've mentally mocked people who, in reality were higher in me in development.

Yep, I had and still have this one. With meditation and self-awareness, this pass too.

45 minutes ago, Nervtine said:

For years I thought they were holding me back and didn't have any good advice, now things have come full circle and I am building a real relationship with my mother for the first time in my life over all this.

This one I founded literally last week.

45 minutes ago, Nervtine said:

 If you got through all that, thank you. I am still fairly new to spilling my guts

Well, personally, I am an Olympic champion of “life talk”, so for me discussions like this are MUCH, much easier than a talk about fucking weather. I DON’T CARE WHAT WHEATER YOU HAVE, THANK YOU, CAN WE HAVE A REAL DISCUSSION?
Now, this aspect back fire at me very strong.

[Nervtine]

1 hour ago, Dumivid said:

1 hour ago, Nervtine said:

I don't know about you, but along this vein I usually find that I've mentally mocked people who, in reality were higher in me in development.

Yep, I had and still have this one. With meditation and self-awareness, this pass too.

@Dumivid This is a huge relief. I've been in a stage of writhing guilt once I realize I made an ass of myself. In some ways, the people in I talked about in this-the ones who didn't care about me killing myself- were in much higher development than I. Perhaps it's not all that simple though- as there were some places I was higher at too, it's not a linear spectrum. 

 

1 hour ago, Dumivid said:

Like marketing guys (because I want to make and sell video games and I considered advertising as evil),

 Oof, this one hit me in the personal feels too. Just replace video games with novels/art. 

 

1 hour ago, Dumivid said:

2 hours ago, Nervtine said:

For years I thought they were holding me back and didn't have any good advice, now things have come full circle and I am building a real relationship with my mother for the first time in my life over all this.

This one I founded literally last week.

 All I can say is these similarities are getting fucking insane. No more coasting along thinking poor me, no one understands my very specific struggles. 

1 hour ago, Dumivid said:

Well, personally, I am an Olympic champion of “life talk”, so for me discussions like this are MUCH, much easier than a talk about fucking weather. I DON’T CARE WHAT WHEATER YOU HAVE, THANK YOU, CAN WE HAVE A REAL DISCUSSION?

 I don't think this comes to a surprise now that I strongly relate to this. I can talk all day about realizing your life purpose, tackling your shadow self and the paradoxical nature of being: but when it comes to weather, pop culture or some other low consciousness stuff, my brain capacity drops down to the power of a sock. Shit, we will probably become good at shallow talk in the future just because we hate this shit. Ah well, as is life I guess, haha. 

[Dumivid]

Quote

 I don't think this comes to a surprise now that I strongly relate to this. I can talk all day about realizing your life purpose, tackling your shadow self and the paradoxical nature of being: but when it comes to weather, pop culture or some other low consciousness stuff, my brain capacity drops down to the power of a sock. Shit, we will probably become good at shallow talk in the future just because we hate this shit. Ah well, as is life I guess, haha. 

I personally have I little different perspective on this one.
We suck at “small talk” not because its shallow but because we are socially uncalibrated. Its much smarter and easier to connect with NEW people trough jokes and stories.
Just visualize next image. You are at a social event/party/club W/E. And you have 2 choices.
1) You tell a funny story from personal life and give positive energy in the room.
2) You complain about your problems and drop “we all gonna die bomb”.

Deep share is for people you already know well. Small talk is for making new friends. So, for me, is not about hating small talk, its about sucking at small talk. In addition, yes, we need to get good at this if we are going to leave in a society and prospers.
Relationships, carrier, mental health (maybe this one a little less), all rely on human connections.
Deep shit make human connection much harder at the begging, unless you talk with another dude who is just into it, like us. At least this is what I found.

[Nervtine]

 

9 minutes ago, Dumivid said:

I personally have I little different perspective on this one.
We suck at “small talk” not because its shallow but because we are socially uncalibrated. Its much smarter and easier to connect with NEW people trough jokes and stories.

@Dumivid That is an interesting perspective. I am placed oddly on the social calibration scale. I am usually perceived as easy going and easy to talk to, and even a good conversationalist (this is a 180 turn around from the last few years, were I was meek, awkward and abrasive). I have high points in empathy and group problem solving, but when it comes to doing something fun- I am fucking clueless. ("What do you mean tackling your shadow self isn't fun? It's only feels like your entire being is being torn apart cell by cell!?" "Busting your ass on a project isn't fun? Whaaat?!?") I guess in that regard, my fun-sympathy/empathy is low. 

16 minutes ago, Dumivid said:

Deep share is for people you already know well. Small talk is for making new friends. So, for me, is not about hating small talk, its about sucking at small talk

 Overall I agree. As a whole, I am abysmal at small talk. I'm at that stage where I question it. Small talk? But why? Why can't we all just have profound conversations off the bat? Once upon a time this was a concept I'd praise, but in reality, it speaks to my low understanding of how healthy relationships function. I've only known and allowed myself to be in dysfunction, so that's all I knew how to process for a while. Going as far to try to turn things that were healthy into dysfunctional because I just couldn't understand it. It also speaks to me being undisciplined and too lazy to figure out the formula for how small talk works- of course throwing the blanket of "No no no, this is because I'm real with people" over it. 

I never really learned how to deep share until recently (2017- yeah, we know where that went). Of course, that's an ability I was so excited to share. Problem being is I didn't have friends that I knew well. I was avoidant of that because I thought I needed attachment, or that they wouldn't be attached to me. Now I kind of have someone, but in reality, we are still learning about each other. 

26 minutes ago, Dumivid said:

Relationships, carrier, mental health (maybe this one a little less), all rely on human connections.
Deep shit make human connection much harder at the begging, unless you talk with another dude who is just into it, like us. At least this is what I found.

 That's been my biggest barrier. I've just expected people to be on my same wavelength, but they just aren't. Be that when I had next to no development, or high development. In the end, I guess it's about finding commonalities. Most people just don't wanna turn inward and question life. And we have to be okay with that- I've tired mental throttling people to my level, doesn't work. 

[ajasatya]

@Nervtine beware. knowledge is very different from wisdom. wisdom is embodied knowledge. how much knowledge can you actually transform into actions consistently?

mental masturbation is a real danger here.

[Nervtine]

@ajasatya Very good insight. It is really easy for me to mentally jack myself off with the personality I've cultivated. I'm gonna have to write that down and stick it on my fridge. 

[Nahm]

On 3/7/2019 at 9:52 PM, Nervtine said:

What are some was you guys move on from difficult things like this?

There are “ways”, until it is realized...

And what are some insights you think I may be lacking in? 

That the way is to let it go. 

You can let it go.

The thinking you need anything from anyone, 

let it go

 

 

[Nervtine]

@Nahm That is most defiantly the biggest root cause of this. Thinking I need anyone...

It's even harder as an empath, as I usually get to know people better then themselves, and probably have a stronger connection with themselves than they do. I always feel like it is my duty to help them see when it isn't my duty at all. I get upset knowing that these people only hurt me because they were hurt themselves...I know, I am working on breathing right now. 

It is one of their birthdays today and...honestly, I don't know if they are even alive. I know, I need to implement some non-attachment- but is it okay for me to be upset knowing I can't help at all? Or maybe that is me trying to control, and control is the biggest illusion there is. I get upset not having people to talk to about this without judgment in my real life a bit- but again, maybe that really is a problem with me judging myself. 

Letting go is what I am aiming to do. You'd think it would be easier than clinging onto unhealthy things, but that's just the counter intuitive nature of being I suppose. Sorry for venting some things not conducive to the topic, I am still seeking to talk about it outwardly while I learn to soothe myself internally. 

[Athena]

This is one of the most relatable thread I've read on this platform in a while.

Did something cosmic happen in 2017? Your timeline is very similar to mine. 

[Nervtine]

@Athena After the fact, I'd say so. Could you define what you mean by cosmic though...? I remember when I first posted this I was worried no one would relate at all, and of course I talked to others who had similar timelines. I hope you get the same odd closure from that which I do.