Is Empathy An Attachment We Must Get Rid Of?

[Nervtine]

 Oh boy, this one is a hard one for me. But the more I do personal development work, the more I do wonder if some of the most basic concepts we hold are healthy. Perhaps empathy as a whole isn't bad- and as we progress further into enlightenment it takes a different form? 

In spiral dynamics, I have noticed empathy means radically different things at each stage. And have been pondering if this is true to in general- at different stages of our lives, empathy does evolve and take different shapes. 

Or is empathy conceptually flawed? While we are at it, does anyone think the societal view and concept of friendship/family is flawed? Empathy is largely a by-product of being social creatures, and we are among the few who can (as far as science knows anyway) feel it; so in large part, it is a niche, very human phenomena.

Could a-let's say alien- physically incapable of empathy, reach enlightenment? 

Is empathy crucial for Enlightenment? Or must it be let go? 

I'd love to hear all of your perspectives! 

(In retrospect I realize this should have gone in the spirituality section- I hope you will still humble me with your wisdom even though I made this mistake!)  

Edited March 8, 2019 by Nervtine

[lmfao]

@Nervtine I suppose the sage answer to this would be whatever you do and whatever you feel, do it with a formless mind. Humans are diverse in their nature, I think that for the vast majority empathy is something natural. You can perhaps see empathy being like any other emotion you have and treat it like all other emotions. Whenever I've recently done meditation, I feel more caring and compassionate towards people. But it's a sort of universal love for all aspects of reality, good and bad. A love which is void of judgement for how reality expresses itself. And I feel as though that anyone in a non-dual state is in awe at the fact that there is existence at all, and is in "love" with all of it. 

There is one thing I will say though. I know that it is the case for myself and for probably many others, we are often nice and kind to people not because we genuinely care for them but because we are (at least subconsciously) afraid of the consequences of not being nice. Why do people in power become so corrupted? Because they can be selfish with no consequences. Their reasons for being nice beforehand were selfish. It is in this way that people experience a neurotic, corrupted form of empathy and put on a mask of being nice. It's selfishness masquerading as empathy. 

Whilst I think it is extremely rare, I wouldn't be surprised if there existed someone perfectly enlightened who had no qualms about killing someone and they would kill a person bugging them in the same way that they kill a fly bugging them. It isn't personal to them and in of in itself the action causes no problems for them.

 

36 minutes ago, Nervtine said:

Could a-let's say alien- physically incapable of empathy, reach enlightenment? 

I don't know

[Markus]

@Nervtine I think it's important to distinguish empathy (the ability to understand and share the feelings of another) from sympathy (feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune). In other words, I'd say empathy is the ability to understand another, while sympathy is an emotional reaction to someone's suffering.

The ability to understand other people only grows when you gain perspective. The less self-centered and trapped by the ego you are, the more you see beyond yourself, including the suffering of others and the legitimate reasons behind that. Suffering in reaction to another's suffering is a blockage. It's not born out of pure understanding but an added desperation of "this shouldn't be like that". Desperation in face of another's suffering is really hard to let go of. It actually feels wrong to do so because it is seen as caring. It can feel that if we don't hold on to that, we're betraying the person who is suffering. Whereas in reality, caring comes from understanding, not the desperation. Desperation actually betrays a lack of understanding of the world, and also making things about ourselves. Making another's suffering about ourselves.

[kieranperez]

Christ.

[kieranperez]

If you can’t empathize with someone whose truly suffering, you’re doing something wrong. One of the things you should be noticing in your spiritual work and personal development is your own connection with everybody else, the painful parts and the pleasurable parts. I’m seeing a huge trend on here of people who have absolutely no compassion nor empathy for people who truly are suffering. As you become more conscious you should be able to feel absolute complete and utter freedom from suffering and also see someone whose maybe suicidal or mildly depressed and feel their pain so deeply that it brings you to tears and feel drawn to help them. If you’re not doing both or can’t do both you’re doing something wrong. It’s a paradox. But that’s how this works. Yin, Yang. Play the complete game. 

[bejapuskas]

I think that if you work on interpreting and embodying your spiritual experiences and do it correctly, you will reach more empathy.

[Truth Addict]

@Nervtine

Is "Getting Rid Of Attachments" An Attachment We Must Get Rid Of?

Edited March 8, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Nervtine]

 

@Markus I am at loss for words- this is a profound insight I can't believe I didn't grasp. Thank you for sharing it with me. I didn't realize how much I needed to hear that until now. With that, take care of yourself and I wish you the best on this journey. 

 

@kieranperez Defiantly a thought provoking video. I understand why you'd get upset by that- thinking I am non-empathetic because I asked this. I've noticed this trend too, and it deeply saddens me, but it is important to know these people have their own reasons for why they don't: devoid if we think it's good or bad.

But your assumption I don't feel empathy ended up causing you anger, so I invite you to that sometimes what we perceive others say (especially over something like the internet, it is much easier to come to a misunderstanding) just isn't so. I have allowed empathy to cripple me, and still do to a degree; in regards to I feel so triggered over something, I just can't see clearly and end up causing just as much harm with my hurt over what hurt me in the first place.

I thought it would be interesting taking one of the things I believe the most in, and looking at it from another angle. Throughout my development, I've realized that empathy in it's conceptual form, is something I am very attached to, maybe you can relate? Or perhaps you see where I am still misguided, we all undoubtedly are. Very good insights though, I will keep those in mind. I hope the best for you, and here is to constant growth for both of us. 

@bejapuskas Thank you for your concise words, I will make sure to remember this. 

@Truth Addict Oof, that's a nice slug to a sneaky trick of the ego. That's something that will assuredly come up next time I meditate. Thank you for sharing that with me. Crazy how we can be so sure of something, and the only thing needed to destabilize it is twelve simple words. 

@lmfao Very deep insights- I will consider this when I get caught up on trying to moralize things, and shoot for gaining a formless mind. I will try and be more conscious myself why I am actually being nice to someone, and what that says about me internally. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Nervtine

[kieranperez]

@Nervtine don’t confuse someone being very upfront and direct for anger. I wasn’t angry. Im very frank and clear. I never made any accusation that you’re unempathatic. Idk you at all. You don’t know me at all. 

[zambize]

15 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@Nervtine don’t confuse someone being very upfront and direct for anger. I wasn’t angry. Im very frank and clear. I never made any accusation that you’re unempathatic. Idk you at all. You don’t know me at all. 

To be fair, I would've assumed you were a little bit angry by the comment "Christ." as well 

[Nervtine]

@kieranperez You do have a point- a good example how I inject high emotion where there may be none. With direct sentence structure it is easy to misconceive it being angry. Good example how we are really only describing ourselves when we try to describe others. Zambize stated what I thought though, something maybe to think about, or roll your eyes at. Best of luck to both of you either way. 

[kieranperez]

4 hours ago, zambize said:

To be fair, I would've assumed you were a little bit angry by the comment "Christ." as well 

I was referring to Jesus to highlight a point as an antithesis to the original post. 

[zambize]

8 hours ago, kieranperez said:

I was referring to Jesus to highlight a point as an antithesis to the original post. 

Ahh, well I'm sorry you kind of ended up at the butt end of an assumption.  I do think it's important to consider how people might misinterpret you though,  my mental voice read it in a bit of an angry sarcastic tone which clearly wasn't the case.  Maybe I should've given you the benefit of the doubt seeing as you are a nice guy from what I have read D: