i feel like i've fallen into a spiritual trap

[ajasatya]

@Viking meaning is an imaginary thing that you build for yourself. it can't be the basis of your taste for Life. your taste for Life should motivate you to build your meaning.

the closest thing to a fundamental meaning that i've ever found during my deepest moments of contemplation is: be amazed by Existence. and even that is relative.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Joseph Maynor there is no meaning we make meanings like everything else its all made up and it becomes real if we believe in it and jas many others that believe in it...you can just be and create meaning at the same time there is no conflict i can make meaning and find evidence about it make other believes it and it will become true thats why religion works for some for some not

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Joseph Maynor there is no meaning we make meanings like everything else its all made up and it becomes real if we believe in it and jas many others that believe in it...you can just be and create meaning at the same time there is no conflict i can make meaning and find evidence about it make other believes it and it will become true thats why religion works for some for some not

Who makes meaning?  Your Ego-Mind?

Edited March 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[NoSelfSelf]

@Joseph Maynor Yeah thats true mind makes everything meanings, labels realities other people stories birthdays etc. You are living other peoples minds meanings and live in your own mind meaning...there is still mind after you awake but you will see its illusions and you will see that is necessery to construct meanings for some things why not its easier to navigate...

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Joseph Maynor Yeah thats true mind makes everything meanings, labels realities other people stories birthdays etc. You are living other peoples minds meanings and live in your own mind meaning...there is still mind after you awake but you will see its illusions and you will see that is necessery to construct meanings for some things why not its easier to navigate...

Yes, and you can choose to ignore the Mind more once you transcend it. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[NoSelfSelf]

@Joseph Maynor yeah you can stay in no mind or play with constructing its still important cuz it affects your body how will behave and what will do but still you know its doing it by itself...

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Joseph Maynor yeah you can stay in no mind or play with constructing its still important cuz it affects your body how will behave and what will do but still you know its doing it by itself...

Does being have a you?  What is this you laid up on top of being?  A thought?  Does being say, "this is me"?

Edited March 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[EnlightenmentBlog]

I'm confused. What exactly is your question? Are you trying to avoid facing meaninglessness through pursuing meaning? Or are you using meaning to motivate yourself to accept meaninglessness?

[NoSelfSelf]

@Joseph Maynor No you is a thought...yeah being recognizes itself and see itself

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Joseph Maynor No you is a thought...yeah being recognizes itself and see itself

Really?  Did being tell you that or did the Mind?  Can you tell the difference?  How can you tell the difference?

Edited March 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[NoSelfSelf]

@Joseph Maynor No its a recognition that you see yourself and recognize that you are that and got hypnotized believing that you are something else by your mind (thats what direct experience is in a nutshell)

[Highest]

You are the Creator. If you want to create meaning and it makes you happy then go for it. Create the grestest and most awesome meaning. Like for example you said: being, living for other people, spiritual experiences relationships, virtues. That’s great meanings to live and have a cool life. If it works for you then go for it.

Existence itself has no meaning, that’s my perspective. But God (You) doesn’t give a fuck whatever meanings you create. He does it all the time.

 

[karkaore]

@Viking You are doing good, my friend. Your post is telling that you bumped into a wall of confusion there. Don't worry, you are not an exception, most of us just as confused. However, i wouldn't put so much effort in trying to conceptualise this.

Everything is nothing, meaning is meaningless. The way you feel about this depends on the way you understand these concepts. I just love the way Alan Watts used to talk about these things. His speeches are a true goldmine.

[Nahm]

14 hours ago, Viking said:

Take a trip with me for a sec-

Persistent happiness is being content with the present moment. You get it through 2 ways:

There’s no ‘you’ which get’s ‘It’. That is duality; you and another separate object. There are no objects or separation. That belief has not been investigated thoroughly yet, so life for ‘you’ is unsatisfying maya. 

1. Meaning- living for other people, spiritual experiences, Being, virtues, relationships... No people, no ‘other’ people, you are not the person, that’s a belief, look into it. 
2. Not resisting the present moment at all, in other words getting rid of all of your samskaras, purifying your soul so no resistance is left, full enlightenment as the buddha achieved. You are not a separate thing, with a separate soul which can be purified, that’s another belief. You are talking about meaninglessness while you’re creating beliefs, running in circles. Just address expressing the emotions. 

I think meaning just allows the brain to stop worrying that the present moment is good enough, which means it is good enough for now. Overthinking derives from the false beliefs that you are separate, physical, and temporary. It is you which continues the veil, the ignorance, by not inquiring into that ‘you’.

Obviously the second option is nearly impossible and insanely hard, i think unachievable if you lead a usual western lifestyle, hence only the first option remains. notice- in the second option I include all the spirituality that youre doing- love, unity, relationships, whatever.. it is NOT the second option.

Here you’ve fallen for the duality, as if one of two of your thoughts are true. No thought is true. You’ve just tricked yourself into believing in meaning. 

99.9% of happy people are happy because of the first option. now here comes my trap (i think its a trap): Major belief there not helping you. You don’t even know there are other people, don’t add more meaning, more beliefs. Self inquire. 

For there to be meaning for me (false assumption) that holds up and makes me happy, I have to be sure that the meaning is true 100%, otherwise, even if I slightly doubt it, the whole meaning goes out the window. I say that because even with a slight doubt, in the back of my mind I will feel that it's not enough, hence no happiness for me.  The thing is that I cant ever be sure that the meaning is true 100%.
Every meaning is a creation of our mind, because different people have different meanings, and stuff that you interpret a certain way for example animals may interpret a certain other way (see Leo's video on what is meaning). Therefore objective meaning is an oxymoron. 
Now, there is no objective meaning, but the meaning that i feel subjectively can be true, right? its there, I experience it. At the end of the day, the perspective that "everything is meaningless" is just a perspective, its not The perspective, theres no such thing as the perspective, so theoretically I could just go on with my life with the perspective in which I feel meaning, hence im happy, everything is cool.
Personally I cant do that. Me knowing that the perspective I hold isnt the perspective, and that I know there are other perspectives equally valid doesnt let me believe that the meaning is 100% true, hence i cant be happy. at all. except if i go live in a cave for a few years and go the second way of getting rid of samskaras. basically im fucked.

No you’re not. You’re up in your head overthinking, simply because you’re avoiding your emotions. Play the meaning games all you want, at the end of the day more thinking will not resolve thinking, and eventually you’ll see that all thinking is illusory. Currently, you support the belief there is a physical separate ‘me’ - so of course, there’s lots of thinking to do. But, if you’d meditate, journal the emotions, self inquire etc...

I guess im not THAT fucked, i can to some extent not resist the present moment due to meditations.

Is there really two separate things? You...and the present moment...? 

i can also feel meaning sometimes when i forget that meaning is false or not absolute. but the lack of satisfaction comes back. 

How does it feel, when you “feel meaning sometimes”?

 

I hope you understood what i wrote, I tried to be articulate.

If there is the belief that you need to be understood, the mind is going to continue trying to be understood (overthinking). That belief is built on the prior a priori belief that you are a physical separate ‘thing’, or temporary ‘object’. If you googled this sufficiently you’d realize there’s no truth in it, no proof at all. But, then, you’d be taking responsibility for your inquiry - instead of going to other people. See this yet? 

help

P.S. what i wrote right now actually implies, that not love, not helping people, not knowing everything is one will make me happy.

Thinking you need something to be happy = thinking you are a separate body = more overthinking. “Will make me happy”. Let that lie go. 

The only thing that will make me happy is to stop resisting the cruel meaninglessness of my existence. (thinking that meaninglessness is meaningful is a samskara and takes full enlightenment to get rid of, I think)

No. How can ‘meaninglessness’ be cruel? That’s meaning, belief. Notice you’ve fooled yourself into believing “you” have “achieved” some “meaninglessness” and are believing it’s “cruel” as a way to stay the victim. Then ensuring the perpetuation of your victimhood by projecting the belief “takes full enlightenment”. 

 

P.P.S Maybe there is a better way to stop all resistance except buddha-like meditation, like gaining wisdom through studying combined with meditation, kriya yoga maybe, idfk, but meaning is NOT a way out.

Ya. That’d help. Read some books, get some clarity. Express emotions rather than searching for ‘thinking’ answers. 

P.P.P.S I guess love and all that stuff is just a side effect and not the point.

Let go of the belief / assumption that there is any point at all. When you hold the belief there is a point, then everything is relative to that point.