i feel like i've fallen into a spiritual trap

[Viking]

Take a trip with me for a sec-

Persistent happiness is being content with the present moment. You get it through 2 ways:

1. Meaning- living for other people, spiritual experiences, Being, virtues, relationships...
2. Not resisting the present moment at all, in other words getting rid of all of your samskaras, purifying your soul so no resistance is left, full enlightenment as the buddha achieved.

I think meaning just allows the brain to stop worrying that the present moment is good enough, which means it is good enough for now.

Obviously the second option is nearly impossible and insanely hard, i think unachievable if you lead a usual western lifestyle, hence only the first option remains. notice- in the second option I include all the spirituality that youre doing- love, unity, relationships, whatever.. it is NOT the second option.

99.9% of happy people are happy because of the first option. now here comes my trap (i think its a trap):

For there to be meaning for me that holds up and makes me happy, i have to be sure that the meaning is true 100%, otherwise, even if i slightly doubt it, the whole meaning goes out the window. I say that because even with a slight doubt, in the back of my mind I will feel that it's not enough, hence no happiness for me. The thing is that I cant ever be sure that the meaning is true 100%.
Every meaning is a creation of our mind, because different people have different meanings, and stuff that you interpret a certain way for example animals may interpret a certain other way (see Leo's video on what is meaning). Therefore objective meaning is an oxymoron. 
Now, there is no objective meaning, but the meaning that i feel subjectively can be true, right? its there, I experience it. At the end of the day, the perspective that "everything is meaningless" is just a perspective, its not The perspective, theres no such thing as the perspective, so theoretically I could just go on with my life with the perspective in which I feel meaning, hence im happy, everything is cool.
Personally I cant do that. Me knowing that the perspective I hold isnt the perspective, and that I know there are other perspectives equally valid doesnt let me believe that the meaning is 100% true, hence i cant be happy. at all. except if i go live in a cave for a few years and go the second way of getting rid of samskaras. basically im fucked.

I guess im not THAT fucked, i can to some extent not resist the present moment due to meditations. i can also feel meaning sometimes when i forget that meaning is false or not absolute. but the lack of satisfaction comes back.

I hope you understood what i wrote, I tried to be articulate.

help

P.S. what i wrote right now actually implies, that not love, not helping people, not knowing everything is one will make me happy. The only thing that will make me happy is to stop resisting the cruel meaninglessness of my existence. (thinking that meaninglessness is meaningful is a samskara and takes full enlightenment to get rid of, I think)

P.P.S Maybe there is a better way to stop all resistance except buddha-like meditation, like gaining wisdom through studying combined with meditation, kriya yoga maybe, idfk, but meaning is NOT a way out.

P.P.P.S I guess love and all that stuff is just a side effect and not the point.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Viking

[NoSelfSelf]

Everything is meaningless is true but not from perspective of ego mind...ego can make all sorts of meanings but they will never be 100% because its not real its changable you can adjust meanings you can do anything and your mind made another thing that it has to be 100% to make it not concrete because thats what mind does its never 100% anything... one day its like this another its like that...one minute i want this another i dont...

[Viking]

18 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Everything is meaningless is true but not from perspective of ego mind...ego can make all sorts of meanings but they will never be 100% because its not real its changable you can adjust meanings you can do anything and your mind made another thing that it has to be 100% to make it not concrete because thats what mind does its never 100% anything... one day its like this another its like that...one minute i want this another i dont...

yeah thats what im saying, therefore u cant be consistently happy off meaning

[Markus]

@Viking The Buddha claimed life to be inherently unsatisfactory for a reason. Because nothing in this life will be the "it" that makes you happy. At best you won't be truly satisfied, at worst you'll suffer miserably. There is no certainty and reassurance of "it's okay" that you can find in this life. Regardless of any type of meaning you come up with, you will still be fearful and uneasy. You will still crave.

So if you really want to stop suffering, there's no dilemma here. The path is the way. Even if you don't make it to the end in this life (if you believe in multiple lives), purging your karma will lead to a growing ease. Pursuing some kind of worldly meaning does not come close to that. And also, not living for yourself and being virtuous are some of the core qualities you'll cultivate on the path anyway. You don't get enlightened by being a selfish asshole in a cave. I know some people quite far along the path who are incredibly humane and lead normal lives.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Markus

[NoSelfSelf]

@Viking happy off meaning what do you mean?

[Shin]

Why do you think you can't awaken ?

Because of this samskara concept you believe in ?

Everyone can awaken, the only question is,

Do you really want to ?

[Salvijus]

I think you're missing something.

How people chose meaning option and get away with it. 

See. You don't need to be happy 24h/a day. Just momemts of joy, there and there they keep you going. That's how it is most of the time. You don't need 100% solid meaning. Just some random meaningless meaning will do the trick. Some moments of happy there and there keeps you going. If life becomes and endless stream of suffering then life becomes not worthwile anymore. If there're some moments of joy that's all it takes for life to become meaningful.

Second thing. Im interested why is there such a struggle with vippassana for you? What is causing so much pain? Maybe you're expecting too much, don't try to find full acceptence on first day. Maybe you should just do it without expectations, simply observe, observe, observe, equanimity.. whatever happens - happens.

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Salvijus

[tsuki]

@Viking Do not bind yourself by seeking liberation.
Looking for meaninglessness is meaningful.
When you doubt, start doubting whether you should doubt or not.

[Joseph Maynor]

Being is not hard.  What makes being hard is when you're trapped in the Ego-Mind.  This is why you have to find being and transcend the Ego and the Mind.  This way even though they will continue to operate, they won't capture you as much.  But being is not a hard thing.  That's a belief that being is hard.  Don't believe that. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Zigzag Idiot]

Meaning comes from being. Self Realization is Being.

As@Markus said, "The path is the way."

 

Self-Realization Brings the Sense of Meaning 

The sense of confidence, certainty, meaning, preciousness, and value implicit in the presence of a state of realization is not necessarily recognized. You just don’t question; you just live life as if it is precious and has meaning. There isn’t necessarily a particular meaning you can articulate. That’s not the point. The sense of meaning is there because there is self-realization. You are there. Your very reality is present and you are it. The very reality of you, or whatever dimension of reality you are realized on at that time, is the significance, the meaning, the preciousness, and it gives everything about you and your world significance, meaning, and value. When this sense of self-realization is absent you usually experience meaninglessness and emptiness in yourself and in your life. Nothing matters, nothing is important. You don’t count. You don’t know what you want to do, nothing that you want to do is important. You don’t have any sense of what’s right or what’s not right; there is no innate sense of orientation, of direction, or of what is valuable to do. The state of self-realization is better known by its absence than by its presence. When it is absent, you feel that you don’t know who you are, you don’t seem to exist. You feel that there is nothing to you: you don’t matter, you aren’t important. You feel insignificant, your life feels insignificant, you don’t even know what you want to do. You wonder why you should even live. A person can become suicidal at this point. Why live? You feel that there is no point in living. In the absence of self-realization you feel a sense of hopelessness about yourself, your life and all of existence.

Diamond Heart Book Three, pg. 103

 

The Meaning of Life is You

When you know yourself, when you realize your true identity, the meaning of life does not come to you in the form of a conceptual answer to a question. It is not an answer in your mind. It is you. The Presence, fullness, and intrinsic preciousness is directly experienced; it is not in reference to anything else. It is complete autonomy; only the experience itself can give a taste of this satisfaction. This experience of self-realization is the answer, in the sense that it ends the drive. It is true absence of seeking. 

Diamond Heart Book Three, pg. 45

[Zigzag Idiot]

There's synchronicity in being!

[Viking]

7 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Viking happy off meaning what do you mean?

like i mentioned in the post, being happy (being satisfied with the present moment) constantly, due to seeing life as meaningful (option 1) and not due to dropping all resistance to life (option 2)

[okulele]

@Viking You want to be free of this?

1. Read your post and see that it is only a story you created in your mind.
2. Decide that you want to be free and you will surrender that story for the sake of freedom.
3. Read it again with the intent to surrender it and be free of it.

Bam! Freedom!

[Viking]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

@Viking Do not bind yourself by seeking liberation.
Looking for meaninglessness is meaningful.
When you doubt, start doubting whether you should doubt or not.

but how will i look for meaningless if i wont seek liberation? 

i need first, in my life, find out whats my north star, you know what im saying?

without the north star, which for me is happiness, which is seeking liberation, im just wandering around aimlessly in the darkness.

[Viking]

10 minutes ago, okulele said:

@Viking You want to be free of this?

1. Read your post and see that it is only a story you created in your mind.
2. Decide that you want to be free and you will surrender that story for the sake of freedom.
3. Read it again with the intent to surrender it and be free of it.

Bam! Freedom!

i dont want to be free of this, i want to not experience daily meaninglessness and emptiness.

i dont even control or induce the emptiness, its just there as a result of going a bit deep. even if i accept it in the moment, it comes back later.

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, Viking said:

without the north star, which for me is happiness, which is seeking liberation, im just wandering around aimlessly in the darkness.

@Viking The only liberation there is comes from acceptance of aimlessness of existence and being okay with its darkness.
Don't you get it? The first rule of the show is that show must go on.
This is why you will always wander aimlessly. Enlightenment doesn't change that.

Realization is when you know that you're okay with life.
You are okay with it as you are right now, but you don't know that yet.

[Viking]

10 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Viking The only liberation there is comes from acceptance of aimlessness of existence and being okay with its darkness.
Don't you get it? The first rule of the show is that show must go on.
This is why you will always wander aimlessly. Enlightenment doesn't change that.

Realization is when you know that you're okay with life.
You are okay with it as you are right now, but you don't know that yet.

but practically in order to realize that "im ok" i have to set it as a goal, otherwise i will just be as clueless and suffering as everyone around me.

i have to "try" to be conscious and accept the present moment as it is.

i think to really be liberated i need to first realize, become conscious, of jus how much meaningless existence is, and then accept it. if i wont, ill just stay where i am now.

[NoSelfSelf]

Why cant you see there is no meaning and make a meaning in the same time?

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Why cant you see there is no meaning and make a meaning in the same time?

You can let meaning make itself.  Being is not a striving.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[tsuki]

27 minutes ago, Viking said:

in order to realize that "im ok" i have to set it as a goal
i have to "try" to be conscious and accept the present moment as it is.
i think to really be liberated i need to first realize, become conscious [...] and then accept it
if i wont, ill just stay where i am now.

In order to be happy I need to do X first

@Viking Can't you see that you create these obstacles for yourself just so that you keep being engaged with life?
This buying into reality of life, into realness of suffering is samsara. Suffering will not cease post enlightenment.
You will still suffer, but you will realize that it's your own doing and it will lose its grip.
You will not treat it so seriously even if sensations will remain the same.

27 minutes ago, Viking said:

if i wont, ill just stay where i am now.
i will just be as clueless and suffering as everyone around me.

Your life will be exactly the same after enlightenment.
You will be even more clueless after you experience kensho.
Accepting this cluelessness is the gateway to liberation with respect to overcoming doubt.

Edited March 8, 2019 by tsuki