Mooji just exposed as a abusuve cult leader?

[zambize]

6 minutes ago, Shin said:

I don't know, and I don't care.

After this I will ask Mooji to coerce another hot and stupid devotee to fuck with me or I'll blackmail him for every disgusting thing he sais he did to all those poor sex slave, I mean devotee, I mean free worker, I mean sweet ladies who will awaken (if they pump hard enough, maybe, one day).

[kieranperez]

Don't take these people to be perfect. Once again, for you nondual elitists on here, enlightenment doesn't make you perfect. You still have a shadow. You will always have a shadow. Enlightenment will not fix your character flaws and many other neuroses. This is not new. This may be new to you in terms of your life time but as far as human existence is concerned, this has always been the case. Enlightenment DOES NOT equal moral perfection. This is why being awake as fuck and leading others towards the raising of mankind's consciousness are 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT endeavors. 

This instance does not take away from the helpful benefits of having even just 1 guru. This should show you the challenge post awakening at how much work you have left after enlightenment. The work doesn't end. Development in the 21st century demands a holistic integral approach. You're just not going to get around that these days. If this were 1000 years ago, this instance with Mooji would be a cultural norm because it was for the most part. Human development is going towards more all inclusiveness so you need to have a more all inclusive development. 

Which is why for those of you who may have a vision of starting some Turquoise ashram or spiritual communitity or monastery, beware that this demands more all inclusive and holistic personal development than ever before in mankind's history. It's not enough to just be awake as fuck. Shadow work, cognitive development, deep understanding and application of systems thinking, etc. these are things you cannot leave aside anymore. This is why those of you wish to deny taking 100% responsibility and ownership over your development of how perfect and whatever other excuse you have for not taking on more ownership for your development are shooting yourselves and also others in the foot. 

Gurus are still helpful. Find a responsible who both speaks to your sole but you can also look at in terms of how he conducts himself and goes about his daily business and ask "is that worth emulating? Is this someone I wish to submit myself to?" 

[zambize]

9 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Don't take these people to be perfect. Once again, for you nondual elitists on here, enlightenment doesn't make you perfect. You still have a shadow. You will always have a shadow. Enlightenment will not fix your character flaws and many other neuroses. This is not new. This may be new to you in terms of your life time but as far as human existence is concerned, this has always been the case. Enlightenment DOES NOT equal moral perfection. This is why being awake as fuck and leading others towards the raising of mankind's consciousness are 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT endeavors. 

This instance does not take away from the helpful benefits of having even just 1 guru. This should show you the challenge post awakening at how much work you have left after enlightenment. The work doesn't end. Development in the 21st century demands a holistic integral approach. You're just not going to get around that these days. If this were 1000 years ago, this instance with Mooji would be a cultural norm because it was for the most part. Human development is going towards more all inclusiveness so you need to have a more all inclusive development. 

Which is why for those of you who may have a vision of starting some Turquoise ashram or spiritual communitity or monastery, beware that this demands more all inclusive and holistic personal development than ever before in mankind's history. It's not enough to just be awake as fuck. Shadow work, cognitive development, deep understanding and application of systems thinking, etc. these are things you cannot leave aside anymore. This is why those of you wish to deny taking 100% responsibility and ownership over your development of how perfect and whatever other excuse you have for not taking on more ownership for your development are shooting yourselves and also others in the foot. 

Gurus are still helpful. Find a responsible who both speaks to your sole but you can also look at in terms of how he conducts himself and goes about his daily business and ask "is that worth emulating? Is this someone I wish to submit myself to?" 

Thank you for offering the counter perspective, sometimes reality is more complicated than the simple humor it produces.  I do think it's healthy to have a bit of cynicism towards gurus, especially considering many examples just didn't end up well for anyone

Edited March 12, 2019 by zambize

[kieranperez]

1 minute ago, zambize said:

Thank you for offering the counter perspective, sometimes reality is more complicated than the simple humor it produces.  I do think it's healthy to have a bit of cynicism towards gurus, especially considering many examples just didn't end up well for anyone. 

Consider all the other examples too of the gurus you know nothing about and never hear from who are just leading their disciples in their own context and stage of development who are quite effective and don't get any recognition because they couldn't give 2 shits about that. 

Be able to see both ends of the coin. 

Not excusing what Mooji may have done. 

[Shin]

Even if the article is totally false,

It's still show everything you shouldn't do as a teacher,
If your goal is to be a teacher and not a narcissistic asshole ofc.

Keeping your followers into delusion by letting them worship you as a god (when they are as much god as you)
Which makes them think subconsciously they can't find the truth, at least not at the same level of realization as you (there is a mental barrier).

This is done in many ways in Mooji Ashrams,
By the songs that are chanted to him (as the savior)
By letting people kissing his feet (as if he was god)
By letting people says how much love they have "for their savior and lord"
And many other things we don't know obviously.

(I'm not even talking about all the psychological and physical abuse, which probably happens in a remote ashram)

He's just one example amongst many,
And that just shows how much careful we need to be if we realize the truth.

We can have all the good will in the world, be enlightened as fuck,
And still create massive evil.

 

 

 

 

This video about feet kissing though … 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Shin

[zambize]

1 minute ago, kieranperez said:

Not excusing what Mooji may have done. 

I like how you used the word "may". 

Cause it's so true, we may one day find out he took advantage of his position, that he let girls suck his dick while looking them in the eye and thinking

"This bitch is going to get attached to me and I'm going to have to deal with the public outcry, can't I just get my dick sucked"  

Or it could be the most loving, spiritually uplifting sex.

I certainly don't know.  It's really not that important to me, he would just be one more guru who let their shadow take shits on people.  Add them to the list I guess.  What's important to me is more the attitude of taking personal development into our own lives, and helping other people take control of their own lives.  I see a lot of gurus kind of offering the same for what feels like sexual pleasure, so it's nice to be able to joke around while at the same time raising awareness 

[kieranperez]

@zambize yeah exactly. Bottom line, we don’t know. We don’t know the full context. That gurumag.com article is based on a website whose business model is quite clearly based around trying to “expose fake gurus”. I’m sure there are a lot of fake gurus but that’s a function of something much more broad. It’d be a mistake to say it’s bullshit. It’d also be a mistake to say it isn’t bullshit. It’d be truthful to take both into account and also acknowledge you flat out don’t know. I’m not saying don’t draw a conclusion for yourself. Just be mindful of how you create your conclusion. When a person is sent to jail for a murder no one was around to witness, you have to make certain conclusions. Again though, be careful and mindful of how you create your conclusion. 

Embodying full uncondtional love is such a radical thing to apply practically in your life because the more you surrender to love the more it’s going to fuck with certain surivival processes like how you earn or don’t earn a living, your sexual cravings, etc. That’s something you’ve gotta go through a deliberate long arduous process over the course of maybe decades if that’s something you deem worth doing and pursuing. @Leo Gura brings this up all the time on here and I’m honestly surprised this doesn’t hit home for most others on here of how easy it is to abuse power. When you have hot “spiritual women” who come to you from around the world that are willing to surrender themselves to you so they could receive your divine grace, you could convince to rub their tits on your face if you really wanted to (especially if you are developed enough too), and not only saying no to that but to be so purified that such an idea doesn’t even occur to you, that’s NEXT LEVEL SHIT. Power is so easy to abuse. This is why I’m impressed by people like Sadhguru who, as far as I know, don’t do that and have the level of integrity and leadership to do what he’s doing with Isha on the mass scale that he’s doing it. It’s astonishing. This is why I both can’t blame yogis for going into a cave or enlightened people laying low after they’ve gotten so fucking awake because you’re on such a different level playing field on 1 end that there’s so much to that because awakening yourself is hard enough, the responsibility and integrity of lifting tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions of people is so next level that they can foresee all the stuff that comes with that and would rather avoid further damage in the future. It also makes me appreciate masterful sages that much more because it shows you how rare that is. How hard that is. How much radical selfless yet total 100% ownership they took on and able to execute on. We take this shit for granted. Hell take Leo even. He’s only come out with 1 course and a booklist. You know how much money he could’ve made making courses and milking the shit out of his current following? 

Most of you on the forum take this shit for granted and then when it comes to taking more responsibility spew out bullshit about how all of that is just ego bullshit. If you were in Moojis position, God help those whose lives you would’ve damaged from your own egotism. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by kieranperez

[tsuki]

This whole racket is caused by people expecting teachers to be perfect and getting brutally woken up.
I can clearly see how his methods could work and how it makes perfect sense to abhor them.

Mooji's project is getting out of hand. He lacks the skill to use his tools.
Acting out of desire to help others is a distraction.
Acting out of desire to help yourself is a distraction.
Acting out of desire to avoid distraction is a distraction.

Edited March 13, 2019 by tsuki

[Wisebaxter]

I watched one clip by Mooji where one of this 'followers' tells him she's had a kundalini awakening and he's really dismissive of it. She then asks him (probably as a veiled insult as she's annoyed) have you ever experienced this? Mooji then looks so pissed. He says something like 'my darling, that's child's play.' I was quite taken aback by the level of ego that Mooji displayed here. In another clip he tells someone to be quiet and stop talking, like he's a school teacher or something. 

One guy I spoke to who'd been to a Mooji retreat said that he stared long and hard into Mooji's eyes and saw nothing, only a hollow void....lol. No love etc. Just my two cents. 

Apparently Papaji, Mooji's guru, stated that many of his disciples were acting as fake gurus. Not sure if he ever mentioned Mooji in specific though. Might be worth doing some research. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Shin]

Where is the video where he dismisses the awakening ?

[Wisebaxter]

@Shin Go to 15.00 if you want to see him fully dismissing her experience and looking insulted. But the whole video is interesting. 

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Shin Go to 15.00 if you want to see him fully dismissing her experience and looking insulted. But the whole video is interesting. 

 

He's cutting down her ego and snapping her out of the seduction of energetic experiences; they are not awakening. Sometimes people need some tough love. Historically, masters and sages could be much, MUCH harsher than that.

[Wisebaxter]

34 minutes ago, winterknight said:

He's cutting down her ego and snapping her out of the seduction of energetic experiences; they are not awakening. Sometimes people need some tough love. Historically, masters and sages could be much, MUCH harsher than that.

@winterknight I see, thanks for shedding some light here. Perhaps my mistake is once again assuming that enlightened masters have no ego, or the capacity to get frustrated or annoyed. I know you've explained before that this isn't the case. It wasn't so much that he challenged her that niggled at me, it was the way he did it, with no tenderness present. He even looked self-consciously aware of how he was coming across. Perhaps if he'd been more confident with it....

But I'm aware these are all my relative assumptions, based on very limited information.  

What are your thoughts on Mooji in general? Does he come across as legit to you? What do you think about some of the behaviour at his retreats, like people kissing his feet, singing songs of praise to him, etc? I guess it's no different than some of the things we see happening with Sadhguru and his followers, or is it? 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Shin]

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Shin Go to 15.00 if you want to see him fully dismissing her experience and looking insulted. But the whole video is interesting. 

 

He's right,

His reaction is weird but he's right.

Having mystical power or super amazing mystical experiences are still part of duality.

If anything they can get you lost even more.

[winterknight]

22 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

@winterknight I see, thanks for shedding some light here. Perhaps my mistake is once again assuming that enlightened masters have no ego, or the capacity to get frustrated or annoyed. I know you've explained before that this isn't the case. It wasn't so much that he challenged her that niggled at me, it was the way he did it, with no tenderness present. He even looked self-consciously aware of how he was coming across. Perhaps if he'd been more confident with it....

But I'm aware these are all my relative assumptions, based on very limited information.  

What are your thoughts on Mooji in general? Does he come across as legit to you? What do you think about some of the behaviour at his retreats, like people kissing his feet, singing songs of praise to him, etc? I guess it's no different than some of the things we see happening with Sadhguru and his followers, or is it? 

You can't really judge whether someone has "no ego" based on their outward actions; it is their inward experience alone that dictates that. Though of course you can decide whether you feel peaceful in a teacher's presence.

As far as Mooji, from his videos, which is the only experience I have of him, he comes across as very legit.

As far as the kissing feet behavior, etc., you have to realize that this is all very normal in the Indian tradition for thousands of years... so arguably he is respecting some followers' need to show their devotion that way. Not all gurus do, of course, but he's made that choice.

[Wisebaxter]

@winterknight Who would you say is the best guru you can watch on YouTube? 

[winterknight]

16 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

@winterknight Who would you say is the best guru you can watch on YouTube? 

Other than me?  (though I actually don't have many videos up)

I actually do like Mooji best of what I've seen. David Godman is also good, though he's not exactly a guru per se.

[ajasatya]

7 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Other than me? 

smells like delusion .

@Wisebaxter a good guru would be one whose method of inquiry is similar to yours. this way he/she is able to anticipate your questions and lead you to even further questions, to the point where your reasons to hold attachments become loose enough.

[Shin]

The best guru is the inner guru.

Use all the material you need, but don't get attached (emotionaly) to one particular teaching, guru or community.

They are pointers and nothing more.

 

[Amber]

A good guru teaches by his mere presence. Word explanations are for the mind, for those who are not yet open enough and not able to receive on some other level. One, who has some sort of magnetism - transmission and not many followers, so his attention would be totally on you and not just giving talks for the masses. 

I met Mooji twice, around 7 years ago, he wasn't so well known then, his energy is light, warm and heart opening, after  5 min I wanted to hug everyone. A lot of laughter present at satsangs and a feeling of mind/ body becoming relaxed. 

What he says rings true. Is he enlightened ?  In my opinion, only to a degree. I lacked seeing - perceiving something that I percieved in two others. But it's still great to be in his company.