Mooji just exposed as a abusuve cult leader?

[Shin]

Just now, Salvijus said:

@Shin If you're genuine you bow down to everything and everyone. An ant, an elephant, a tree, a sky, a rock, a neighbor, a guru. Everyone and everything.

"Passion for others, dispassion for yourself" #sadhguru

@Shin you simply have have inseciurities of feeling inferior aka, interiority complex., Aka, you're too full of yourself

That's what I just fucking said,

You serious ?

 

Does the average devotee bow down to other people aside the guru ?

Probably not, and that's my point.

 

They worship him, and that's how you get stuck ...

... Thinking some part of reality is worth more than an another.

[noselfnofun]

4 minutes ago, Spacious said:

Thich Nhat Hanh comes to mind if I remember correctly, has an almost abusive dimension to his style of teaching (happy to be corrected if this is wrong, and I also see great value in his teachings).

I'

Really? What makes you think that, I would say Thich Nhat Hanh is one of the most compassionate. 

[EmptinessDncing]

I have first-hand experience of abusive guru's and it certainly had me questioning everything that I thought I knew about enlightenment.  It is very common.  It was very simple for me.  Rules and morals don't exist in the Absolute.  There are consequences in the Relative, but do they matter?  This particular teacher, along with their teacher, had decided that personal growth is not important after one discovers that there is no person.  Yar...  Religion decided upon a bunch of principles for a reason.  I'm self-realised, I'm not going to do that shit.  Sure, it's all meaningless, but do we want another Sodom and Gomorah?  This is where we play.  That being said, all the teachers/guru's that I know that are highly suspect still have amazing teachings.  Sogual Rinpoche changed the way many people view death.  Should we un-do what we learnt from him?  Of course not.  As a bonus, now we can learn what not to do.  I learnt the hard way a really good reason to never fuck my students!

[noselfnofun]

6 minutes ago, Spacious said:

Like I say, happy to be told this isn't the case, by someone who has digested more of his teachings,I would prefer his ethics to be sound.  I remember reading something which suggested he could be excessively disciplinarian with his students.

And remember, just because someone seems compassionate, it does not make them entirely that way.

Yeah interesting I'll check that out. Yeah exactly I think before we start judging people or teachers best to actually meet them and see for our own eyes. Same goes for the rumours about Mooji. I know someone who is obsessed with Mooji and dose not even know him, I could totally see how one of his crazy followers could make alot of stuff up about him.  

[luckieluuke]

3 hours ago, nistake said:

I have nothing against Mooji and I don't know about the article, but the videos are pretty cultish. The guy sitting up there and his followers kissing his feet and crying. Can you see this kind of behaviour in other spirituality-related videos? Like in Rupert Spira's? I mean, come on...

I agree 100%
How is Mooji´s inaction to stop worshipping him conducive to enlightenment? Yea you can get into the details of being a teacher, a guru and how to spot a real vs a fake. But taking a step back I can just feel it in my gut and after seeing those videos of people singing, crying in their devotion to HIM how different this is from Rupert Spira or Eckart Tolle, even Jed mckenna.

I haven´t listened to Mooji since I prefer other teachers so maybe it´s just my ego disliking him and getting fuel to the fire + I don´t know about his teaching so I am writing from a very distanced view. 
But yea, Im not feeling it. 

[legendary]

5 hours ago, Jed Vassallo said:

I think we’re finally seeing that the idea of a guru is fundamentally flawed.

The true Guru is the Satguru, the inner Guru, God, Self, or whatever other name you wish to give it. This Guru has been guiding you, silently, toward your liberation. “He” is the same as all of the true physical Gurus, for their real identity is the formless infinite Consciousness that can appear in any form.

Sri Ramana Maharshi used to say that the body-mind of a Guru is still an illusion, but an illusion that can wake you up. It is like a lion appearing in an elephant’s dream. It is powerful enough to wake the elephant up from the dream.

-Santata Gamana

 

Problem arises when the Guru is viewed from a stage Blue/Green perspective and the student focuses on the finger rather than the moon.

I have no idea about Mooji, but based on my conversations with people who have been to his events, he is the real deal. Not to say that he does not have any shadow.

[AlwaysBeNice]

I wasn't shocked when I read it.

Do I think there is some truth to him being a bit of an ass at times?

Probably, that's like, what 99% of humans do, me too, isn't that normal in relationships? Of course there's a fine line yet clear line I think between some tough love and abuse, and should be used very carefully.

But especially being constantly surrounded by people who put you on a pedestal, that's not an easy task to be 'very proper' all the time,

.. but we don't know do we? 

Just as I think there's some truth to him being a bit of a jerk at times, I also know there's plenty of bitter people out there that don't like success, or spirituality, and will try to smear it.

But it doesn't really matter all too much unless you live there I guess, his teachings are good and have always been pointed only to self-empowerment. 

[Salvijus]

37 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

These people obviously are feeling something because nobody is forcing them to show such affection toward Mooji. 

+1

[luckieluuke]

46 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

These people obviously are feeling something because nobody is forcing them to show such affection toward Mooji. 

 @Salvijus @Joseph Maynor Yes and the people who started to follow scientology showed their affection to Hubbard. Just because someone sincerely feel love for someone does not prove that that person is worthy of that love.
I mean cmon! lots of people have manipulated other people to love them. And when group dynimcs are involved it can really escalate. People can be confused and in that confusion think that they love someone when they really don´t.
How can you see that as proof that Mooji is legit?

 

46 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Mooji might get the reaction he does because he's much more on point than somebody like Rupert Spira

Funny, I find that Rupert Spira is sooo much more on point than Mooji, which is why I prefer to listen to him  
But I think its not a general reaction of people, it might instead be your personal reaction that you assign to other people....Then again it might be, Im not sure.

Edited March 7, 2019 by luckieluuke

[Salvijus]

@luckieluuke in scientology people worship because they are forced to worship. Because somebody told them if you don't bow down you will go to hell. Or smth like this. Everything there is based on beliefs and ideology.

In Mooji's community no one ever tells to do such things. Simply some people out of their own, out of their gratittude without anyone forcing them, willingly bow down. That's a huge different. 

And even if someone in scientology felt genuine gratittude for Hubbard. It's still nice. It's nice for that person. That person who bowed downed felt sweetness of love for a few moments and that's great. It's an amazing feeling.

It's not about what you worship it's about you. You chose whatever object you like and you bow down to. It doesn't matter what. You like Hitler you bow down to him. It's not about the Hitler, it's about you experiencing huge love within you. Hitler is just a tool to generate that emotion within you.

Mooji doesn't care if people worship him or not. He often says please avoid pretentious bowing downs to me. But  if it's a genuine longing for you, i don't want to deny that possibility to experience joy and love for yourself. 

Honestly, it's impossible for you to understand what it feels to feel devotion untill it happens to you. When i met Mooji face to face, tears of love were rolling like a river for me for him. 

At that moment bowing down at his feet would have been the most natural thing for me, the sweetest thing also. It's something that you cant understand untill the consciousness of a sage, the presence of the devine being washes you over like a sea washes over a pebble.

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Salvijus

[luckieluuke]

@Salvijus Great point!
Still what I am saying is that if I compare Mooji and say...ghandi, eckart tolle etc he seems to lean more towards Hubbard/Hitler style of teacher/leader than say buddha/Jesus. I don´t know what is going on in that ashram but like I said, that´s what I see from my viewpoint. Mooji seems to have a big spiritual ego.
Have you yourself been there enough time to conclude that this is not true? If you have then the statement is correct, that the love shown is honest and prove that Mooji is legit. 

I see you took the non dual route. Yes Love is all the same at it´s core, one difference in time/space is that One love is for the limited ego (hitler) and one is for the limitless love (jesus) In the same way you can say there is no free will, all is illusion.
But for us uninlightened (me included) we seem to have free will, and the illusion is real. I live in this real illusion so I have a hard time saying that both love is the same. It is and it isn´t.
 

[JohnnyBravo]

They aren't kissing Mooji, they are kissing God 

Mooji is just the excuse.

A mentor who was a DIRECT DISCIPLIE of Osho said the peak moment of his life was when he went to bow down and touch Oshos feet.

He said doing this he was overswept with a happiness and love so real, that it was painful to experience. He was crying, weeping out of love and surprise.

Osho was just an excuse.

Once God gets so near pure in a human the follower is just surrendering himself to existence and this is the relevance of this ritual.

But yes, to an outsider, this will look like the most pathetic and mindless behaviour.

Id love to see our Bigger than life Elliot Hulse and his pro macho attitude bow down and touch the feet of a master; such a man cannot, proving the attitude of him and the attitude necessary for a humble human to be able to acknowledge someone.

If I met a master, Id love this experience.

Im sure this is what people did with Jesus also, the washing of the feet. It is a symbol of deep humility and knowing we are all connected and we are all in this together.

[cetus]

@Jed Vassallo What seems questionable is that it's a publication based soley on digging up dirt on guru's. Without a news story it wouldn't be much of a publication. 

 

                                                                                                 

[SriBhagwanYogi]

Who cares he is a great teacher, Osho done some crazy cult things but was Enlightend as fck... 

[Salvijus]

@JohnnyBravo +1

@luckieluuke

1 hour ago, luckieluuke said:

@Salvijus Great point!
Still what I am saying is that if I compare Mooji and say...ghandi, eckart tolle etc he seems to lean more towards Hubbard/Hitler style of teacher/leader than say buddha/Jesus. 

It's fine. Simply you need to understand that some teachers encourage devotional aspects some don't. 

For example the reason Bhuddha descided to make his teachings as dry as possible because he sayed after I leave my body my teachings will last much much longer if i make it as dry as possible. If you add a lot of devotion and juice into my teachings then it will not last so long. It will get distorted very fast.

All the devotional teachings get distorted very fast like Jesus for example. He highly encourage people to worship him and pray to him and everything. That was his method. He would say just give yourself to me totally, you will attain. But look how distorted his teachings became.

Mooji seems to allow this devotion to flow in his community and it's fine. It's his way. And it's a smart way. With devotion your growth becomes very easy and fast.

Every teacher is different. All that matters is are they doing it with good intentions or to satisfy their ego... Well that's a personal judgement everyone makes for themselfs. I think he's totally free from egoic attachments and desires.

Even I such a puny guy don't have any desire to manipulate people to love me. Why would a sage who did decades of consciousness work in front of a realized master would still have such ridiculous desires.... I mean.... cmon... Have some perspective...

Edited March 7, 2019 by Salvijus

[Zigzag Idiot]

It's mostly in hindsight that one can see where imagination has ran wild.

[luckieluuke]

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Why would a sage who did decades of consciousness work in front of a realized master would still have such ridiculous desires.... I mean.... cmon... Have some perspective...

This is the essence of what we are discussing here. Why would mooji sleep with his followers? There is always a dynamic between follower and leader where the leader can take advantage if he/she pleases. Why would he let them devote themselves to him?
Sure you can loose your ego by devoting yourself to a person. But that is not enlightenment so then you are teaching something else.
Have some perspective? haha yes I am explaining it. I could say the same to you, you seem to be unable to understand my simple perspective: That I get a bad vibe from spiritual teachers who they themselves claim to be enlightened, say they are god and let people worship them like a god. And Mooji reminds me of this.
Other than that, great post above, interesting perspective and surely some truth in it  

[Salvijus]

9 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

Why would he let them devote themselves to him?

you seem to be unable to understand my simple perspective: That I get a bad vibe from spiritual teachers who they themselves claim to be enlightened, say they are god and let people worship them like a god. And Mooji reminds me of this.

As i sayed there's a lot of benefit to allow devotion. When someone is in the devotion he's most receptive to grace. 

Second thing. With devotion it becomes super easy to surrender your ego. Without devotion it's very hard crual process of hardcore sadhana. With devotion is very simple. It's the simplest and sweetest way to keep your ego aside and let the grace overtake you.

Some masters chose to allow this others don't. Bhuddha wanted to make things as dry as possible

Someone like Krishna or Jesus highly encouraged people to give themselfs totally.

Mooji seems to be somewhere in between there's room for everything in his teachings. If you don't like devotion just observe observe observe it will work. If you are a little more softer and ripe you can add devotion to spyce things up. To make your progress faster.

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Salvijus

[pluto]

Those who emit light/truth will always be targeted by those who have built their whole world around darkness/illusion.

[luckieluuke]

@Salvijus I see your point, like I said earlier: it can be easier to loose your ego by devoting yourself to an external person/object. But for me it doesn´t seem like true enlightenment.
Have you read Jed mckenna? he has a woman helping him who is totally devoted to a indian god, and through that devotion she lost her ego completely. But she isnt enligthenened (acording to him)...she is something else.

I believe the inner guru is the only guru you should devote yourself to. Truth is whithin us, not an object outside us, even if that object connects to the truth within me I can not find truth in another "thing" than me.

Or maybe Im wrong...I certainly am to some degree but that is my perspective nevertheless.
Thanks for a nice discussion, gotta go!