Is enlightenment something of the mind?

[Identity]

Is enlightenment something that only takes place from the mind? 

So, meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation type practices seem to focus on the mind. At least, to me it feels like I am really in this battle with myself in my head. "trying to let go", surrender, "catching yourself", finer distinctions of how the mind operates and trying to let awareness shine through it. To me this feels what is mostly talked about, at least in the content I am watching. In this part, I also feel like I am really making some progress.

However, the heart also seems to play an important role. Someone on this forum recommended following a few teachers with different orientations, mind centered, heart-centered, and something else I don't remember. Also, Leo emphasized the importance of a "teotlized heart" and has mentioned love as one of the "facets of the absolute". 

 

So are this different, and are there perhaps more, facets of the absolute? Like different fingers on a hand? Or is enlightenment one thing that these different avenues lead towards? Like different rivers ending up in the same ocean? Or am I completely confused?

How fucking big is this thing? It feels like I'm in a dark room and have been told there is an "elephant". I might or might not have been able to touch this elephant with one hand. However, I am not sure if it is this supposed elephant or just the wall.  

[mandyjw]

As you become more conscious and are able to tell when you are present and when you are caught in thinking, you will be able to tell the difference between thoughts, impulses and ideas that come through your heart and thoughts that come from trying too hard (the ego). 

[Identity]

@Mikael89 That makes some sense, but from the perspective of the ego you are doing something to realize you are a small flame part of the sun, to extend on your metaphor, right? When I am doing these practices whilst not at that moment aware of the full truth of myself, I am doing something... Either calming the mind, or questioning myself, "melting myself off myself". Letting your mind get fucked by reality feels like a pretty accurate description. In a sense, you are disidentifying with the self to realize the True Self, and identity takes place in the mind...

Pff, I am getting confused lol

[Joseph Maynor]

Actually, no.  In my experience Enlightenment is the location of being and the transcendence of the Ego-Mind, which includes transcendence of the Mind.  When you can rest in being and loosely practice Non-Attachment to everything that can be clung to, including but not limited to thought -- this brings peace to your life.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Identity said:

Is enlightenment something that only takes place from the mind? 

 Nothing is taking place from the mind, “ordinary reality” is Mind, so there is no ‘mind some thing is from ’. That mind is “the veil”. 

2 hours ago, Identity said:

So are this different, and are there perhaps more, facets of the absolute?

 ‘Everyone’s’ experience is the same, but is also uniquely different, just as you are like everyone but also uniquely different. There are countless facets that get categorized, but can’t be really, and no distinguishable facets at all.

2 hours ago, Identity said:

Or is enlightenment one thing that these different avenues lead towards?

Yes.  

2 hours ago, Identity said:

How fucking big is this thing?

There are no things. There is no such thing as a separation. It’s a conditioned thought. ‘How big’ “it” is can’t be thought because “it’s” “infinite”, and also because you can’t separate from “it” to measure “it” a part from you.      There aren’t parts, separations or pieces.    (Also, that’s what she said). 

[Big Guru Balls]

Quote

   6 hours ago, Identity said:
How fucking big is this thing?

Almost as big as my big guru balls .....
Almost .

 

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

 (Also, that’s what she said). 

Damnit.
Looks like my sister's up to her old whorin' ways again.

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Big Guru Balls

[Joseph Maynor]

15 minutes ago, Big Guru Balls said:

Almost as big as my big guru balls .....
Almost .

 

Damnit.
Looks like my sister's up to old whorin' ways again.

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Hellspeed]

Enlightenment is the opening of your being to an optimal state beyond indoctrination, similar to child without words and concepts but with a full grown body and experience. 

[Big Guru Balls]

So Buddha was a dumb man child?
I knew something wasn't quite right with that dude.





 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Hellspeed said:

Enlightenment is the opening of your being to an optimal state beyond indoctrination, similar to child without words and concepts but with a full grown body and experience. 

I like this.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[WelcometoReality]

@Identity there are different types of awakening.

Awakening from mind. which is awakening from thought. You no longer believe to be the person you thought you were but being no-thing instead.

Awakening of the heart. No longer separation. A sense of there being one. A feeling of being everything.

Awakening from the gut. Which an awakening from the most existential part of the separate self.

It takes time to embody every realization. A rewiring of the body-mind to embody truth.

[Shin]

19 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Identity there are different types of awakening.

Awakening from mind. which is awakening from thought. You no longer believe to be the person you thought you were but being no-thing instead.

Awakening of the heart. No longer separation. A sense of there being one. A feeling of being everything.

Awakening from the gut. Which an awakening from the most existential part of the separate self.

It takes time to embody every realization. A rewiring of the body-mind to embody truth.

Does the Awakening from the mind implies seeing everything as a dream (sort of), or you can still be in duality but there is no identification to the body/mind ?

Edited March 4, 2019 by Shin

[moon777light]

15 hours ago, Identity said:

So, meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation type practices seem to focus on the mind.

in the guide for self inquiry, its mentioned that the reason people say "go into your mind" is because beginners identify themselves with the mind. the point is to find out what am i, so naturally you go looking where you originally thought you are. It would be too complex for beginners to say to focus on all around you, so people start with the inside. But as you progress, you'll see its not. 

[FoxFoxFox]

@Identity

Can you actually NOT let go? At what point in your life had you been able to truly hold onto something? 

To the extent that you swim with the current you are still. 

Trying to let go is a paradox, no? Can you intend to be spontaneous? Spontaneity is already your nature. If a wall is painted red, can you paint it the same shade of green and produce a different color? 

I think you could benefit if you shift your focus in meditation to observing your inherent spontaneity. Next time you sit to meditate and notice a thought arise, ask your self where has this thought come from? Is there an actual source you can follow to find the root of this thought or do the thoughts appear out of nowhere? 

[Highest]

No, it has nothing to do with the mind. It’s direct awarness and consciousness of what the real You is, which to me can only be described as God. It’s direct actuality, direct Truth.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Highest

[Highest]

14 minutes ago, Highest said:

No, it has nothing to do with the mind. It’s direct awarness and consciousness of what the real You is, which to me can only be described as God. It’s direct actuality, direct Truth.

This of course comes in various degrees and levels. The ultimate level is like Leo did and actually died in order to become God fully (Infinite).

Edited March 4, 2019 by Highest

[Identity]

Thanks for your responses, they are very helpful 

@Nahm Pretty sure that most of that, except for the "that's what she said" part, flew over my head.  I guess what really confuses me here is the relationship between relative and absolute. So, if I understand you right, you are trying to point me to the fact that everything that arises, all form and categorizations are part of the whole. Creating this distinction between the mind and escaping from it is a duality and overlooks that all of it is consciousness, there is nothing not IT.

But how then is it that becoming aware of this influences the relative as well? There is to some degree always this duality between you and it until you become completely formless, right? There is always someone or something that becomes aware, because otherwise there would be nothing, right? 

@WelcometoReality Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.

8 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

I think you could benefit if you shift your focus in meditation to observing your inherent spontaneity. Next time you sit to meditate and notice a thought arise, ask your self where has this thought come from? Is there an actual source you can follow to find the root of this thought or do the thoughts appear out of nowhere? 

 

I tried this for a bit and it felt great, so I will keep experimenting with it, thank you. 

[WelcometoReality]

13 hours ago, Shin said:

Does the Awakening from the mind implies seeing everything as a dream (sort of), or you can still be in duality but there is no identification to the body/mind ?

It's seen as you being the absolute and then there is everything else. So it can be seen as everything else being a dream or illusion. Just be aware that there is more to it than that.

[ThomasT]

Non-dual consciousness does not take place in the mind. Go do 5-MeO, and you will KNOW!! 

[Aaron p]

On 3/4/2019 at 0:56 AM, Identity said:

Is enlightenment something that only takes place from the mind? 

So, meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation type practices seem to focus on the mind. At least, to me it feels like I am really in this battle with myself in my head. "trying to let go", surrender, "catching yourself", finer distinctions of how the mind operates and trying to let awareness shine through it. To me this feels what is mostly talked about, at least in the content I am watching. In this part, I also feel like I am really making some progress.

However, the heart also seems to play an important role. Someone on this forum recommended following a few teachers with different orientations, mind centered, heart-centered, and something else I don't remember. Also, Leo emphasized the importance of a "teotlized heart" and has mentioned love as one of the "facets of the absolute". 

 

So are this different, and are there perhaps more, facets of the absolute? Like different fingers on a hand? Or is enlightenment one thing that these different avenues lead towards? Like different rivers ending up in the same ocean? Or am I completely confused?

How fucking big is this thing? It feels like I'm in a dark room and have been told there is an "elephant". I might or might not have been able to touch this elephant with one hand. However, I am not sure if it is this supposed elephant or just the wall.  

I recommend against "trying to let go" the practises do this for you. Do kryia yoga. Also, your mind is within consciousness. Everything is within your consciousness. All of history is within your consciousness, all the entire universe is within your present, experiential consciousness. Be careful though! Don't let this become another idea in that consciousness of your. Infact, don't believe a single word I say. 

Your analogy of the rivers flowing towards one water reservoir, that would be enlightenment...I think that sounds like a good description. I overthink things a fuckton so i tend to absolutely philosophically demolish whatever is put in front of me. So i feel as though I'm starting to understand the different aspects of spirituality more. Don't worry about confusion, just watch the one who is confused. And if you become clear, watch the one who has become clear.