Is the ‘goal’ to have no mental “projections”?

[7thLetter]

I’m starting to become aware of one of major mental projections.

And its the fact that I view most businesses and certain people as “selfish.” Which is quite true because collectively as a society we’re slowly moving out of stage blue on the spiral dynamics model, into stage orange, correct?

I believe I have this mental projection because in my early adulthood and until now, I’ve been exposed to a lot of selfishness in business. And on top of that, studying, meditating, and understanding what it means to be highly conscious, understanding different perspectives, I often view this projection as a result of the development of my consciousness.

Some examples of my projections are onto doctors, “They don’t care about you, the medicine is expensive to pay themselves, it doesn’t help, its just a crutch.” Or I often see that the people of the government owned place that I live in, are finding ways just to spike up our electricity bills. And my dentists as a kid, I once had nice teeth and now they purposely ruined it in hopes of me paying for braces. And several more.

I think that some of these beliefs are quite true and that only conscious people would be able to understand, correct me if I’m wrong.

Is the goal to not have any of these? Is this even a psychologically healthy thing to do? Or is it most likely just a result of my development?

 

 

[Sahil Pandit]

@7thLetter Good topic to consider.

I think that the goal of working through your projections is to boil your awareness down to direct experience. 

Like Leo has said in the past, we rely heavily on concepts and imagination. So much so, that it sweeps us up and we easily can get lost in these mental fabrications.

As we raise our consciousness, these projections get purged through and eventually dropped. 

I'm working through some of these projects, but boy does the mind like to stick to them... 

[njuufa]

Projections are zen-devils self inquiry. 

Projections keep you from seeing whats there.

 

[Breathe]

4 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

Is the goal to not have any of these? Is this even a psychologically healthy thing to do? Or is it most likely just a result of my development?

The mind will always have judgements and projections. The goal is to see them as not truth. When you cease to believe your thoughts, you're open to opposing views and can see things from different angles. In other-words, you enter a state of not-knowing. There's a famous Zen quote: “Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinions.”

Edited March 4, 2019 by Breathe

[Bluebird]

A good practice is to see how you are really the culprit of the projected traits. It's definitely a psychologically healthy thing to do in my experience.

You can either become more grounded in actuality and the projections do drop away (ground-up), but I also believe it's a good practice to tackle the projections themselves (top-down). 

You do this by inquiring into the truth of the belief, and then subsequently seeing if you are actually the selfish/wasteful/greedy one.

For example let's take: "Most business people are selfish"

Then see if you are selfish (you are) and in what ways. Make a massive list, for example (let me trigger you for a second).

1. I judge business people for being selfish to feel better than them

2. I believe my beliefs are more correct than their beliefs

3. (Me) I give advice online to make myself feel wiser and smarter than I really am

[7thLetter]

@Bluebird  I wasn't triggered but I thought a bit of what you're saying here.

This is definitely not the first time I'm hearing that same idea of something along those lines of "Whatever you project onto others is a projection of yourself." One person on these forums basically said that same exact thing to me as well, and my argument was, "No its not necessarily a direct projection of yourself, but it could mean that you were that way in the past."

And I still think my argument is quite valid, it doesn't take a whole lot to spot the mentally dysfunctional people, doesn't take a whole lot to spot the emotionally attached people, the narcissists, etc.

So basically what that idea says is that, just because I think someone else is a narcissist, means I'm currently a narcissist? I'm definitely not, but I was that way in the past when I used to do cold-approach pickup. These things are definitely a lot easier to spot when you were once that way in the past because you analyze your own past behaviors when you were that way, and you sort of see the same thing in other people.

I also thought a bit deeper into what you said, and I admit it, I am quite selfish at times and I believe that selfishness is quite helpful in business in most cases. I'm often honest with others and with myself so that's not something I'm going to deny. I'll be honest with others even if it might ruin the relationship, that's how honest I am because I want to be true to myself.

So even though I'm being honest about my selfishness, I still don't agree with the whole idea of "your projection is a reflection of who you are." I see people of different skin color, but do I have that same skin color? I see insecurity in other people, am I insecure? Not completely but it was quite bad for me in elementary and high school. Although one thing I can agree with is that judging other people says a lot about another person. People who tend to judge other often, most likely judge themselves in their own minds.

[DrewNows]

We can learn so much from the self(mind). Especially in our interactions with others. Loved ones and close friends are even more pertinent. YOU are everyone you come in contact with whether you like it or not  

while we are here, judging, we can see how it is people are the way they are. You are able to spot all these flaws in other people but does that really define them in actuality? Is it all that they are? It’s all conditioning, mind stuff, and having minds we can automatically relate...so UNDERSTAND that your projections are YOU and also are NOT the wholeness of BEING 

(attachment to identity and projections are all that is revealed IMO) 

[Joseph Maynor]

The goal is not to have no mental projections; it's to be able to see the mental projections for what they are -- thoughts.  This is part of transcending the Mind, which is a major part of Enlightenment work.  You don't get rid of the Mind, you see through the Mind.  That's what transcendence means.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Salvijus]

There's more to it then you think. Those projections that you named is just a sand grain in the desert

There's not single moment in your life where you're not projecting. I mean pick a single moment in your entire life or even as you read this message you're projecting your opinions, judgements, interpretations everything on every single moment of your life. You haven't experienced a single moment in your life without projecting.

Mic drop. 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Salvijus

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

There's more to it then you think. Those projections that you named is just a sand grain in the desert

There's not single moment in your life where you're not projecting. I mean pick a single moment in your entire life or even as you read this message you're projecting your opinions, judgements, interpretations everything on every single moment of your life. You haven't experienced a single moment in your life without projecting.

Mic drop. 

Are you projecting when no thought is present?

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Are you projecting when no thought is present?

When there's no thought then there's a perfect equanimity and no projecting.

But this perfect equanimity state takes decades of practice. It's not enough just to be present because there's still very subtle thoughts in the subconcious mind happening and interpretating and projecting.

Sadhguru says if you are able to be in absolute equanimity where there is absolutly no distortion of reality then you'll see everything upside down because if you know physics that's how an eye captures a sight and then brains distort that by turing it around to make sense to you. So there are many many many many many layers of subconcious thoughts and beliefs that are distorting your reality right now.

In Bhuddhism this is the main practice to eliminate all distortions of reality. To be perfectly still and equanimous. No cravings and no aversions. No looking up to anybody, no looking down on anyone. Seeing things just the way they are..not the way you think they are.  Plain mirror mind like a lake that reflects reality perfectly. Vippassana is one example of such a practice.

This is fun  to contemplate the impact of this

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Salvijus

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

When there's no thought then there's a perfect equanimity and no projecting.

But this perfect equanimity state takes decades of practice. It's not enough just to be present because there's still very subtle thoughts in the subconcious mind happening and interpretating and projecting.

Sadhguru says if you are able to be in absolute equanimity where there is absolutly no distortion of reality then you'll see everything upside down because if you know physics that's how an eye captures a sight and then brains distort that by turing it around to make sense to you. So there are many many many many many layers of subconcious thoughts and beliefs that are distorting your reality right now.

This is fun  to contemplate the impact of this

 

Just watch being when no thought is present and see if you're projecting.  Don't over-complicate this.  

Edited March 4, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Salvijus]

13 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Just watch being when no thought is present and see if you're projecting.  Don't over-complicate this.  

Don't oversimplify this. This takes decades and dacades of hardcore sadhana.

That's the reason why we see so many retards here caliming they're enlightened because they think 20min a day for a year is enough to become a sage who spent his whole life to pursue truth.

"The danger, Sadhguru tells us does not lie in being in the dark; that can be dispelled for anyone who genuinely desires it, but in settling for an easy brilliance, a spurious radiance. The danger does not lie in seeking urgently, but in arriving cheaply. " #Sadhguru

Edited March 4, 2019 by Salvijus

[Bluebird]

@7thLetter I think you may be confusing observation with projection. It is a very delicate and confusing balance and I struggle to navigate it.

In my experience, I just assume I'm projecting if there is any doubt. But basically, if you have any judgement around something, or if there is any emotional trigger or attachment then you are projecting.

If you can say a particular PUA is acting in a slightly narcissistic way and it might backfire on him in the long run that's fine. It's when you judge someone for being a selfish little narcissist and get reactive, judgemental, or emotional about it that you can be certain it's a shadow projection. 

Based on some psychedelic trips I've had, I'm pretty sure the statement it's all a reflection of you is pretty damn accurate on so many levels. On a very deep level, the world manifests itself in such a way as to take on the forms of your fears or projections. It's super hard to explain and almost not worth it, it's something to be experienced.

But there are definitely degrees of projection, you probably don't project as heavily onto a leaf as a gun, or as heavily onto a random uber driver as a police officer that is pulling you over.

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People who tend to judge other often, most likely judge themselves in their own minds.

Yes, this seems very true to me. I was judgmental of people, but mainly myself for a long time.

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I see people of different skin color, but do I have that same skin color

In a certain sense, you are projecting the skin colour difference. Consider that you could genuinely not notice the different skin colours of people, the only reason you notice is because your attention is directed towards the meaning behind the difference (maybe, idk?).

Consider that if you really grounded yourself in actuality like as close to totally as possible, the idea of separate skin colour wouldn't even make sense. The projection breaks down.

It's super hard to become aware of subtle projections, which is where psychedelic trips with other sober individuals can be super amazing for becoming aware of projections.

But then again, I could be talking complete BS

[Bluebird]

@Joseph Maynor Very easy to momentarily come out of no-mind/being and quickly project something onto it, and then return to being.

But I feel like this is how most non-dual theory is developed.