Is Self Inquiry 'Relaxing' Awareness or 'Focusing' on it

[Wisebaxter]

10 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Hmmm, I hadn't really thought about it like that. . . 

I think we are all familiar with the "monkey mind" (no pun intended). As well as a mind that quiets down during meditation. I generally don't really go into meditation with an inquiry goal (yet occasionally I do - like when I was struggling with form=formless). Usually, I will sit still or do be doing yin yoga and reach deeper and deeper states of consciousness. I'm not really waiting for a question to arise either. It's like another realm (I found smoking a little weed + yin yoga can together help relax the mind body into deep relaxation). Then something may arise. There is no attachment, identification or internationalization with it. Sometimes it arises, sometimes not. What arises can be wild. Like paranormal stuff. . . 

For example, I started dating a gal recently I feel a strong connection/attraction to. Last week during the start of my practice, surface level thoughts about whether I should ask her out again, should I call her later tonight, what we might do on the next date etc. arose. That's surface level stuff I just let go of. 20min. into the practice was deep relaxation and quiet. Then she appeared again. Yet it had a very different essence. It was trans-personal. I just sat with it. It was like her presence was with me. Like a channel had opened. There was observation of how our energies mix. It was deeper than self desires and needs. It was a deeper level of love I guess one could call it. I just let it mix and linger. Yet, my "self" wasn't there. There was no "me" thinking stuff like "Wow!! This is so cool!! It's like another being is here! Gosh, golly I wonder if I should ask it something. The guys on the forum are gonna love this!" There was no person like that present. If there was, I would have changed direction.

That sounds awesome dude. I'll have to look into Yin Yoga. What other stuff arises for you in this state you mentioned?

Good luck with the gal, glad you've met someone you really like  

[Wisebaxter]

6 hours ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

My Centering Prayer meditation does the same thing as Rupert Spira's meditation. I also have a concentration practice that is similar to what I think Leo is reffering to which is good for 'mindfulness'. Doesn't Leo also have a do nothing meditation?

Centering Prayer, it is said cultivates "objectless awareness" or another way to put it, 'non-conceptual awareness'. No objects in awareness at all, including thoughts. Of course there are the constant intrusions of thought but in brief periods when there is objectless awareness, everything is still and quiet inside.

@Zigzag Idiot I see, so Leo's 'do nothing' technique is similar to Spira's 'resting as awareness' technique, which isn't really a 'self inquiry method as such. That's good to know. Do you think they're both trying to get you to the same place though i.e a realisation of what awareness is? 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Wisebaxter]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Wisebaxter

The guys said great things above.

I'll add what I think is right.

You need to do both relaxation and focusing. Start with meditation until your mind is still, then start asking questions and try to get genuine accurate answers.

You can use this method to contemplate other questions as well.

The main trap is thought. What you're seeking is actuality.

@Truth Addict I was quite intrigued by Leo's method of self inquiry that he outlines in his new video though, which entails just observing observation/awareness, without questions. Questions through me off a bit as I can easily get lost in monkey mind again. 

This is the challenge of spirituality I find, honing your techniques, experimenting. Also, when you don't really know the end result you're after, this makes matters harder as you have nothing to measure yourself by. I struggle with the idea that I'm doing something wrong and wasting time. 

Thanks everyone for your help

[Space]

@Wisebaxter This is something i've been trying to figure out as well. I tend to make a distinction between awareness watching awareness meditation, and then the self inquiry method that Leo recently discussed. Both are quite similar, but I feel there are some subtle differences. With the awareness watching awareness meditation, it feels more passive, I let thoughts come and go, and it's generally a more relaxed 'meditative' process. With the self inquiry method, I am actively trying to 'get' who or what I am. So it's more of an engaged process. I tend to (mentally) ask questions to really focus the mind. I always self inquire with my eyes open as well, as it cuts down on the monkey mind a lot. But of course they are quite similar. They both lead to awareness watching awareness. Overall I tend to lean on the side of being more active rather than passive with my attention, but as I mentioned i'm still trying to figure it out. If i'm too passive then the meditation or inquiry lacks necessary focus, and you just end up half-assing the technique. I think ultimately it requires a balance of both. 

Some interesting resources on the topic:
https://www.personalpowermeditation.com/awareness-watching-awareness-better-than-any-sight-any-sound/
https://albigen.com/uarelove/most_rapid/chapter07.htm

[Anton Rogachevski]

Hello again dear friend, you always ask the best questions.

In order to fly a bird must first flap its wings and later to glide. So you need both, and then according to where you are, apply the right tool. 

Godspeed

Edited March 2, 2019 by Anton Rogachevski

[Wisebaxter]

@abrakamowse So once we discover what's behind the sense of 'I am,' we discover our true nature? What, in your experience, is the best way to get there? 

[Wisebaxter]

@Anton Rogachevski Hey buddy! Glad you dig my questions  Ok, so it's not a question of choosing one, it's about the situation and what's required, where I choose to flap or glide...I can dig that. I also need to develop the faith that in time, with enough patience and presence, the answers will be revealed to me

Edited March 2, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Nahm]

@Wisebaxter

Perhaps instead of:  Is Self Inquiry “Relaxing'” Awareness or “Focusing” on it?

Rather: Is Self Inquiry Relaxing Awareness or Focusing on “it”?

 

What’s.....”it”?   And what’s....doing the relaxing and focusing?

And...what does the word, yoga, actually mean?

[Zigzag Idiot]

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Zigzag Idiot I see, so Leo's 'do nothing' technique is similar to Spira's 'resting as awareness' technique. So it's not really a 'self inquiry- method as much. That's good to know. Do you think they're both trying to get you to the same place though i.e a realisation of what awareness is? 

Yes. I think both methods of emptiness and concentration reinforce one another in putting one in a space that helps reveal 'being' as our true nature instead of thoughts (monkey mind or discursive awareness) mixed with feelings resulting in emoting. Emoting also being a stuck condition of being identified with thoughts/feelings. Being, on the other hand allows one to rest in awareness that can watch thoughts and feelings arise. I'm really seeing 3 separate methods being discussed though. Meditation in 'emptiness' - concentration practices for mindfulness and overall Inquiry for discovering ones mechanicalness. All three helps point one towards the realization of being as an actual felt experience. IMO.

[Truth Addict]

@Anton Rogachevski  ? @Nahm ?

...

@Wisebaxter 

Persistence is key, you have to hold the belief that there's something there in order to succeed, and that's because others have done it.

Don't believe your mind when it tries to make it seem pointless, everytime you ask a question, you get closer to Truth.

I think that you need be clear about your motives here, what are you really after? You need to have genuine curiosity to exploring reality. And I think you do, but you need to become aware of that so it can guide you.

There's no wasting your time here, what better things would you be doing in life? If you think there are better things to do, then by all means do them first, perhaps you need to fulfill some lower needs like sex and safety, I don't know, I'm just guessing here.

Good luck my friend.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Wisebaxter]

@Truth Addict Regarding the whole 'wasting time' thing, I think I feel that way because so many people practice this stuff their whole lives and don't become enlightened. You also hear people like Adyashanti and Rupert Spira say things like 'it took me years to realise that this approach was wrong.' For example Adya was using concentration meditation for years before he realised that residing as awareness was the best way to reach enlightenment. I can't help but feel that if someone can correct me or help me avoid a mistake which is easily rectified, then that's preferable to discovering it on my own. But I might be wrong about this.

As for what I'm after..that's a good question and something I need to contemplate more. I guess I want to experience (although it's not an experience as such) the bliss, love and peace that comes from realising my true nature, because identifying with ego has certainly not helped in this regard, especially by engaging with lower needs you mentioned. I want to connect with the whole as I can feel it calling to me. I don't want to be separate, I want to become the truth. Yes I know, I...I...I....I lol. I may not be as underdeveloped as I appear to be. I think I come across as a bit of a rookie as I ask a lot of questions and don't claim to have had any mystical experiences, but I have felt the calling of Teotl my friends  The seed of my true nature grows within me and gets stronger every day. So I want what any sincere seeker on the pathless path wants...to let this seed of truth shine and to remove Maya. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Anton Rogachevski]

3 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I also need to develop the faith that in time, with enough patience and presence, the answers will be revealed to me

Patience and presence is gold.

The tricky part is that there's no time, and there are no answers.

Have faith that you already have all the answers you need, you just don't see them, or rather you don't know where and how to look, and you have no way to recognize what has no opposite. You can see black, because there's white, but what you look for has no properties at all, it is invisible yet it's all there is.

Just stop right now, and open your eyes. See where are these "awareness", "concentration" and "relax" you speak of?

Edited March 2, 2019 by Anton Rogachevski

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Truth Addict Regarding the whole 'wasting time' thing, I think I feel that way because so many people practice this stuff their whole lives and don't become enlightened. You also hear people like Adyashanti and Rupert Spira say things like 'it took me years to realise that this approach was wrong.' For example Adya was using concentration meditation for years before he realised that residing as awareness was the best way to reach enlightenment. I can't help but feel that if someone can correct me or help me avoid a mistake which is easily rectified, then that's preferable to discovering it on my own. But I might be wrong about this.

Here where the research is most valuable, and I mean the theoretical and experimental research.

Find out what works best for you through experience.

Again, there's no wasting your time here, what you're exchanging is the illusion for Truth, so whatever you do, make sure it's on the expense of your free time not your work or study time.

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Truth Addict

I guess I want to experience the bliss, love and peace that comes from realising my true nature,

I want to connect with the whole as I can feel it calling to me.

I don't want to be separate,

I want to become the truth. 

So I want what any sincere seeker on the pathless path wants...to let this seed of truth shine and to remove Maya. 

What if dropping the whole seeking process leads to all of these? What if surrendering your will and desire to get them will actually get you to them? What if accepting or at least considering that you could already be having all of them will make you realise that you really have them?

What if this whole seeking process was Maya?

What I mean is that these are good motives, but I think it's better to seek Truth for Truth's sake, without expecting anything out of it.

Have you read Jed McKenna's book: "Spiritual Enlightenmet: The Damnedest Thing"? It will answer many of your questions.

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Truth Addict I may not be as underdeveloped as I appear to be. I think I come across as a bit of a rookie as I ask a lot of questions and don't claim to have had any mystical experiences, but I have felt the calling of Teotl my friends  The seed of my true nature grows within me and gets stronger every day.

This right here is the true motive that you want to expand to help you on the path.

You don't appear to be underdeveloped, no one is more developed than anyone else, development is an illusion.

Asking questions is a good mark, we are all students of reality, and we have to always be open to learning from each other.

Even the greatest gurus ask questions, so don't beat yourself up. You're doing just fine.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[abrakamowse]

5 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@abrakamowse So once we discover what's behind the sense of 'I am,' we discover our true nature? What, in your experience, is the best way to get there? 

Probably my response will make you more confused hahaha... because I am really also doing, not doing... What I am working more now is in accepting everything as is. Not questioning anything, everything that happens I accept it and I don't try to do nothing.  I mean, it's impossible not to do anything, but what I mean is to try to "flow" the best I can with what is at the present moment.

And always focused on "presence", instead of "me". Seeing everything from a more open perspective. I think that's what Ramana refers when he says "abide in yourself"... I think he refers to the true self. Not the idea of "I".

[abrakamowse]

@Wisebaxter I found this text online and I think that maybe it can help you too. We have no way to know how we will become enlightened. So, the only thing we can do is accept that and do whatever we are doing without having a "goal". If you make it a goal it won't happen, I think... Read this and let me know what you think.

 

http://realizedone.com/post/one-of-ramana-maharshis-students-papaji-discuss/

[Wisebaxter]

This is all awesome guys. I'll answer in a bit more depth soon. I had a mini mystical experience tonight so I want to take some time out to integrate it before I get lost in monkey mind lol. Much love to you all

[Aaron p]

On 3/1/2019 at 10:50 PM, Wisebaxter said:

One issue I'm having with self inquiry is, Leo talks about 'focusing' on awareness, almost as if it's a concentration exercise, but Rupert Spira says that it's about relaxing your attention as you can't make awarenesses into an object. He says that it's a 'non practice' that requires you not to do anything at all with your attention. You just let it fall back into itself. Any ideas where my confusion lies? Maybe their outlining two different approaches for arriving at the same result. Spira does mention self inquiry at the end of this video, almost as if it's slightly different. He refers to it as a 'concession' in the teaching to help you get to the stage he's referring to. 

 

@Wisebaxter "focusing" and "letting go" are actually the same in this instance. We are focusing on the nothingness of letting go 

[Wisebaxter]

@Truth Addict Thanks a lot for all your help on this one buddy. I actually had an awakening experience on the same day we were having this discussion, perhaps because you encouraged me to talk about why I was on the path. I think that asserting this, my desire for connection and transcending ego, may have activated something, but who knows. 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Truth Addict]

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Truth Addict Thanks a lot for all your help on this one buddy. I actually had an awakening experience on the same day we were having this discussion, perhaps because you encouraged me to talk about why I was on he path. I think that asserting this, my desire for connection and transcending ego, may have activated something, but who knows.