How Does One Let Go Of Desire?

[ZenDog]

As Maslow says, self-actualized people are not motivated by a feeling of lack.

I know that desire based motivation is bad, but if I am honest with myself, most of the things I do are pure desire. 

Since I started doing way more consciousness the last 3 months I have definitely have less desire. But I sometimes also feel desire when I do the  consciousness, I desire being enligthened, I desire being mindful and at pease. 

Is there any way to directly work on the trap of desire? Or is more consciousness work the main way?

[A way to Actualize]

Having desires is okay, if it not gets in the way of everything else. Those will naturaly dissapear when you advance in spiritual work. Go after them, so you can release some resistance and enjoy it while it is there. The best kind of spiritual practices are the ones that are social practices, Matt Kahn teaches that new paradigm, no more spiritual perfection.

Actually here are two videos that might help you alot:

A really simple, advanced, profoundly deep spiritual practise that leads you to enlightenment:

 

And about desires is here included:

 

[Jimmylem]

@ZenDog There is a great book called 'The Book of Not Knowing, by Peter Ralston' - it's on Leo's booklist - and it has a great explanation of desire. He says that desire is made up of the following components:-

1) The possibility of a future - i.e. desire is always about projecting something that is to happen (or wants to happen) in the future. It's very' futuristic', this desire.

2) An assessment that something or other is missing now.

3) Concept of a preferred experience.

4) Separation between the object of desire and the self.

5)A feeling-sensation of imagined pleasure, masking overlooked pain

Ralston says that if you eliminate any one of these components, desire falls away. This section really got my attention when I read the book, and so I wrote these points in a note on my phone so I could access these points easily, wherever I was. I found that if I could contemplate any one of these with respect to some desire I had, it would put the thing in a perspective of mindfulness, and I felt the grip of desire would loosen considerably, even disappear. All of these points are closely related to Enlightenment - for example, 3) is totally congruent with the concept of non-duality, and that is a keystone of Enlightenment. You desire the thing because you perceive it as something 'other' or separate from 'you'. That's one of the traps of desire you refer to. The thing desired is not separate - it is you and you are it!

Hope this is of help, these points in 'The Book of Not Knowing'  helped me a lot. In the book he goes into explanation of each point, much better that I ever could! 

[charlie2dogs]

2 hours ago, ZenDog said:

As Maslow says, self-actualized people are not motivated by a feeling of lack.

I know that desire based motivation is bad, but if I am honest with myself, most of the things I do are pure desire. 

Since I started doing way more consciousness the last 3 months I have definitely have less desire. But I sometimes also feel desire when I do the  consciousness, I desire being enligthened, I desire being mindful and at pease. 

Is there any way to directly work on the trap of desire? Or is more consciousness work the main way?

I will give you the answer to your question, short and straight to the heart of the matter.  Stop trying to do consciousness work, stop desiring enlightenment, stop desiring being mindful and peace, stop trying, stop desiring, and be the being of consciousness that is your real state of being, then you will observe life from the space of consciousness, you can function as a being of consciousness, and not the identity with its ego and desires.  You have become lost in the fictitious identity that you are inhabiting, controlled by programing, false belief system, and a warped perception of life around you.  The only way out of this is to take back your power as a being of consciousness.  To do this will not require you to do so called spiritual practices, follow religions, or follow anyone for that matter, however it can help to spend time listening to those who have already gone where you want to go, they can give you encouragement, support, and help you keep focus.   You are already what you are seeking but you have become disassociated from it,  to regain it, do this, and do it often,  sit down, be still, close your eyes and be with the source of life that is sustaining your body, dont think, if thought comes, dont touch, give no attention, let them pass, just be still and quiet.  Enjoy the space of being.  At other times you can practice this as it will become most important to finding your real self, practice being in the moment of life, being present, in a conscious state of awareness. its hard in the beginning, and you may find it difficult to remain in the moment but only briefly, but in time you will be able to enjoy that space of being in the moment of life more and more.  Being quiet and still with the source of life within you and being able to be in the moment in a present conscious state of awareness is what it will take to free yourself from the identity and its ego, and desires and become self realized.  Eventually you will be able to enjoy that space of being while you do what you do.  What you do will change from what you were doing as the identity, the way you do things, the intention behind what you do but that will take care of itself once you are in that space of being. 

This sounds simple, and it is, and it works, you just have to do it and trust until you see for yourself.  this isnt someones idea, philosophy, doctrine, religion or belief,  it comes from  having the experience.  As you should be aware now, that most of the teachings going on, on this planet doesnt seem to be getting results as far as the number of self realized beings, and to be honest with you most who are doing the teaching have no experience in their own consciousness, it is primarily just some spiritual practice they are performing, maybe helping to make them a better person, but being a better person isnt self realization.  Leo's videos will show you where you are in this process.  The key to your own kingdom is in the first paragraph, i hope it is of value to you.

[ZenDog]

3 hours ago, Jimmylem said:

@ZenDog There is a great book called 'The Book of Not Knowing, by Peter Ralston' - it's on Leo's booklist - and it has a great explanation of desire. He says that desire is made up of the following components:-

1) The possibility of a future - i.e. desire is always about projecting something that is to happen (or wants to happen) in the future. It's very' futuristic', this desire.

2) An assessment that something or other is missing now.

3) Concept of a preferred experience.

4) Separation between the object of desire and the self.

5)A feeling-sensation of imagined pleasure, masking overlooked pain

Ralston says that if you eliminate any one of these components, desire falls away. This section really got my attention when I read the book, and so I wrote these points in a note on my phone so I could access these points easily, wherever I was. I found that if I could contemplate any one of these with respect to some desire I had, it would put the thing in a perspective of mindfulness, and I felt the grip of desire would loosen considerably, even disappear. All of these points are closely related to Enlightenment - for example, 3) is totally congruent with the concept of non-duality, and that is a keystone of Enlightenment. You desire the thing because you perceive it as something 'other' or separate from 'you'. That's one of the traps of desire you refer to. The thing desired is not separate - it is you and you are it!

Hope this is of help, these points in 'The Book of Not Knowing'  helped me a lot. In the book he goes into explanation of each point, much better that I ever could! 

Cool, i will be meeting Peter this fall :D!

[ZenDog]

@charlie2dogs So instead of sitting down and trying to do consciousness work I should just view it as I am going to sit and be instead? I do 1-2 hours a day

[charlie2dogs]

47 minutes ago, ZenDog said:

@charlie2dogs So instead of sitting down and trying to do consciousness work I should just view it as I am going to sit and be instead? I do 1-2 hours a day

I would not do 1-2 hours, i would do what feels right, and what i mean is if you are doing it and you are achieving the purpose which is being still and being quiet, connecting with the source of life within yourself, it will be feel good to you, and you can remain till it doesn't, but if its just a practice for a given period of time it wont be achieving any worthwhile purpose.  Ten minutes of being in the space of your own being is more beneficial than hours of doing some practice.  I'm sure you understand that. what you are seeking is within you, the idea is to become one with it,  dont forget the practice of being in the moment it is very very important, because as a being of consciousness you will function in the moment, so both are connected. what happens is consciousness is giving up this idea that it is the identity and reclaiming the full power of being a being of consciousness. spend some time contemplating what i wrote in the two statement to you, and work with this, at a point you will realize that change has taken place within you, there will be a shift from the identity to functioning as a being of consciousness.  Dont over burden yourself with trying to learn too much, or take on too many ideas about enlightenment or self realization, just do the work, and something will change in you, how fast it happens depends on you, but sitting for hours isnt the answer, and there will come a time when you wont need to sit at all or meditate, because everything you do in life will be your meditation, and you can be an aware, conscious being while doing it.

[Armand]

My desires are impending on my own personal growth.

There are desires that take up too much of our time, and it's hard to build up a life you desire if you are held down by many useless desires/distractions. 

[Pav]

From my interpretation, I don't think Maslow necessarily said that they didn't desire, but rather that they are motivated differently. A deficiency-motivated person will see some 'lack' they have and will be motivated to fulfil their lack, the process or journey is not important to them it is just seen more as a tool/method or an annoyance in the way getting what they desire. On the other hand a Being-motivated person simply does things because they love to be doing it, for the mere joy of it; they value the activity for its own sake. The reward is not important to them, it's the process that they love. The 'desire' for them is largely internal, rather than external.

It's a bit like the difference between studying hard at school in order to win you parents respect/love/admiration/approval, or studying because you find the world interesting and wish to learn more about it. Another example would be the difference between starting person development for the external benefits like gaining more money and getting better with the opposite sex, or developing yourself because, as Maslow puts it; "growth is, in itself, a rewarding and exciting process, eg., the fulfilling yearnings and ambitions, like that of being a good doctor; the acquisition of admired skills, like playing the violin or being a good carpenter; the steady increase of understanding about people or about the universe, or about oneself; the development of creativeness in whatever field, or, most important, simply the ambition to be good human being."

As an example: 

Personally, I have found that when you are just starting out in a new field, like learning about a new topic or getting started in a new art, you initially know so little about it that you cannot possible appreciate the full beauty of it. It is only once you are years into it that you can begin to realise just how vast the field is and get a slight idea of just how much you still don't know about it. When you're deep into mastery you will find that you are intrinsically driven to keep doing it. This drive can never be satisfied, but rather only grows greater the further you go. You find that you just can't get enough of it. It is a very pleasurably sort of desire.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mat Pav

[Richard Alpert]

19 hours ago, charlie2dogs said:

I will give you the answer to your question, short and straight to the heart of the matter.  Stop trying to do consciousness work, stop desiring enlightenment, stop desiring being mindful and peace, stop trying, stop desiring, and be the being of consciousness that is your real state of being, then you will observe life from the space of consciousness, you can function as a being of consciousness, and not the identity with its ego and desires.  You have become lost in the fictitious identity that you are inhabiting, controlled by programing, false belief system, and a warped perception of life around you.  The only way out of this is to take back your power as a being of consciousness.  To do this will not require you to do so called spiritual practices, follow religions, or follow anyone for that matter, however it can help to spend time listening to those who have already gone where you want to go, they can give you encouragement, support, and help you keep focus.   You are already what you are seeking but you have become disassociated from it,  to regain it, do this, and do it often,  sit down, be still, close your eyes and be with the source of life that is sustaining your body, dont think, if thought comes, dont touch, give no attention, let them pass, just be still and quiet.  Enjoy the space of being.  At other times you can practice this as it will become most important to finding your real self, practice being in the moment of life, being present, in a conscious state of awareness. its hard in the beginning, and you may find it difficult to remain in the moment but only briefly, but in time you will be able to enjoy that space of being in the moment of life more and more.  Being quiet and still with the source of life within you and being able to be in the moment in a present conscious state of awareness is what it will take to free yourself from the identity and its ego, and desires and become self realized.  Eventually you will be able to enjoy that space of being while you do what you do.  What you do will change from what you were doing as the identity, the way you do things, the intention behind what you do but that will take care of itself once you are in that space of being. 

This sounds simple, and it is, and it works, you just have to do it and trust until you see for yourself.  this isnt someones idea, philosophy, doctrine, religion or belief,  it comes from  having the experience.  As you should be aware now, that most of the teachings going on, on this planet doesnt seem to be getting results as far as the number of self realized beings, and to be honest with you most who are doing the teaching have no experience in their own consciousness, it is primarily just some spiritual practice they are performing, maybe helping to make them a better person, but being a better person isnt self realization.  Leo's videos will show you where you are in this process.  The key to your own kingdom is in the first paragraph, i hope it is of value to you.

Would be intresting to hear what is youre background? You basically just put yourself above people who do/teach consciousness work. Im not hating, but there is some pretty strong words in youre post.

Doing this stuff without any guidance is in my opinion same as learning to play soccer or tennis by myself. It can be done, but the learning curve is way longer without any coaching or mentoring.

I do agree thought that most selp-help is not very helpfull, because the people who teach have not themselves mastered the inner work. But there are great people who go beyond self-help

 

[charlie2dogs]

2 hours ago, Richard Alpert said:

Would be intresting to hear what is youre background? You basically just put yourself above people who do/teach consciousness work. Im not hating, but there is some pretty strong words in youre post.

Doing this stuff without any guidance is in my opinion same as learning to play soccer or tennis by myself. It can be done, but the learning curve is way longer without any coaching or mentoring.

I do agree thought that most selp-help is not very helpfull, because the people who teach have not themselves mastered the inner work. But there are great people who go beyond self-help

 

would being self realized be considered enough background, with 42 years of experience in the personal growth field in this lifetime alone.  I appreciate you saying you're not hating and yes they are strong words but, those who have experienced self realization, cant play games with other peoples lives, we try to put forth what will help others to avoid the traps that we had to suffer through,  there are few out there that really get into how to achieve self realization.  Most are trying to help other become better human beings, my intention in what i do is to help those that can hear to become beings of consciousness, functioning in a conscious, present, aware, liberated state of being and not identities (human beings) functioning in an unconscious manner.

[Richard Alpert]

18 hours ago, charlie2dogs said:

would being self realized be considered enough background, with 42 years of experience in the personal growth field in this lifetime alone.  I appreciate you saying you're not hating and yes they are strong words but, those who have experienced self realization, cant play games with other peoples lives, we try to put forth what will help others to avoid the traps that we had to suffer through,  there are few out there that really get into how to achieve self realization.  Most are trying to help other become better human beings, my intention in what i do is to help those that can hear to become beings of consciousness, functioning in a conscious, present, aware, liberated state of being and not identities (human beings) functioning in an unconscious manner.

cool, thanks for replying.

[vizual]

Desire is a very tricky thing to define, a definition is very likely to be misunderstood by people who are very involved by their ego's. It's also hard to define what the difference is between something that naturally arises out of you and a 'desire'. When a carnivorous plant catches and digests prey, does he do so out of desire or not? Where do we draw the line?

I think the 'bad' desire is the kind of desire that grows and uplifts our ego's. We chase that desire because it somehow makes us feel more safe and secure. A big strong ego is a very convincing illusion of safety and power. Of course, this ego will bring all kinds of trouble to your life.

If we got rid of this ego it would not necessarily mean that we become monks who sit down and meditate all day. But we become more like the carnivorous plant, we will be at peace all the time, and if we are hungry and a meal appears we eat. There is no need to go around and chase for food all the time, the very act of chasing a desire spoils the true enjoyment one might get from attaining it. The earth has no desire to spin around the sun, but it still does it in peace. Earth knows that flying around all over in the universe would not bring him any more joy than he already has, because Earth is on its path exactly where it is supposed to be.

So how do you get rid of desire? Stop labeling stuff and think it will make your life somewhat better, it doesn't. A temporary 'high' always comes paired with a 'low'. The only true 'high' what we really want is the high of pure being, and being is constant. Of course, the 'highs' of desire can be very convincing so there is a lot of consciousness work to do. The more you can raise your consciousness, the more you can see through the false promises of desire. 

 

 

 

[Salaam]

On 4/17/2016 at 0:27 PM, ZenDog said:

As Maslow says, self-actualized people are not motivated by a feeling of lack.

I know that desire based motivation is bad, but if I am honest with myself, most of the things I do are pure desire. 

Since I started doing way more consciousness the last 3 months I have definitely have less desire. But I sometimes also feel desire when I do the  consciousness, I desire being enligthened, I desire being mindful and at pease. 

Is there any way to directly work on the trap of desire? Or is more consciousness work the main way?

Desire based motivation is not "bad". 

Do you know one thing that is always present to some degree behind pleasure, comfort, passion, desire, motivation, stress, pain, and suffering? It's pressure and your body cannot survive without pressure. The level of pressure we feel changes and shifts and expresses in completely different ways, depending on the context of the moment. What happens when you feel sexual desire? Tension and pressure increases throughout the body, sexual tissue becomes erect via pressure expressed in the blood, and that same pressure also propels hormones and neurotransmitters to their required destination to sustain and create further cascades of desire and pleasure.

Pressure creates propulsion, it galvanizes us. Sometimes that propulsion is pleasurable, sometimes it's stressful or painful. There are innumerable combinations, contexts, and expressions. Shit even the lack of pressure has an effect. In some contexts the release of pressure comes across as a feeling of relief and other times it comes across as feeling drained or depressed.

This whole "desire is suffering" thing is an irresponsible over-simplification of what happens in reality.

Desire is way more complicated than that and can be contrasted with so many other variables to express so many different types of feelings. Why? Because it is a part of a complex eco-system that is the human organism and plays an integral part in it's survival and health.

We don't discard desire, we work with it and gain a connection with it and learn to balance the pressures behind it. So it works with us in the right contexts, rather than against us, because we're being ignorant to the dynamics in which it can work harmoniously and neglecting the development of capabilities that allow us to make such an aim a reality.

I work with it all the time quite successfully. I've got a journal in the forums here, where I talk about it often.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Salaam

[charlie2dogs]

when you have no desires you will no longer be on this earth.  Even those who have awakened from the dream and become self realized and are staying here for the purpose of assisting human beings, have to maintain a little desire in order to stay in the physical body,