I know what I am. Ask me anything.

[Aeris]

that's a lot of bullshit to talk about nothing don't you think, where is the actuality there, that's what I was fucking asking, who the fuck are you for yourself ?

[KMB4222]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:50 PM, who chit said:

Entertain or consider
"Whatever I think I am, is what I'm not".
What am I?
"I am not this body,not an organism,not a mind,not an idea,not a thought,not a sensation,not a feeling,. "
"I am not this consciousness or even this awareness."

"Whatever I perceive, is what I'm not".
I am not this breathing,this sense of seeing,this sense of hearing,this sense of tasting,this sense of touching,this sense of smelling".

What am I?  Nothing? Something? Everything?
Not even that.

I can see where this kind of thinking would be useful, especially in opening up the mind. It feels a bit contrived to me, as if it's pointing in a particular direction at a particular thing or destination. Maybe that's the point of self-inquiry - to point to the formless "I".

I haven't done much self-inquiry because I always found it to be too directional, if I can put it that way. I prefer to just rest in my experience and see what it reveals. 

But thank you for the suggestion. I will have to consider it more going forward. There is a self-inquiry book I purchased which may be of some help. I won't name it, because I think it might be on Leo's book list.

[KMB4222]

14 minutes ago, Aeris said:

that's a lot of bullshit to talk about nothing don't you think, where is the actuality there, that's what I was fucking asking, who the fuck are you for yourself ?

I don't mean to talk a lot of bullshit. I'm trying to be as practical as I can in explaining my experience. My current experience is yes, I am a body (and maybe not the body as well). I have accepted, at least for the time being, that I only know my direct experience, which is this experiencing this. You can call my physical form by any word, it makes no difference. 

I realize this isn't the typical "I know..." or "I am....ask me anything" thread. I'm trying to point to direct experience in whatever form it takes in any moment, regardless of what I have read in books or what others' experiences have been. 

There is a profound not-knowing that comes along with just accepting the present moment for what it is. It's scary as hell, I admit. I would rather learn that I was immortal, but maybe that isn't the case. I don't know yet. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by KMB4222

[SriBhagwanYogi]

@KMB4222 https://youtu.be/73hmMugiqGg

[KMB4222]

1 hour ago, SriBhagwanYogi said:

@KMB4222 https://youtu.be/73hmMugiqGg

Thank you for the link. 

[Key Elements]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:44 AM, KMB4222 said:

 

So “what am I?”.  

I am this body, organism, thing, object, consciousness (whatever you want to call it) experiencing this moment, world, life, experience (whatever you want to call it). 

You already answered your own question here. It's true from a logical standpoint, but it's not profound.

However, are you going to include this in your life purpose along with your skills and along with being unique? It doesn't seem like your answer is worth it. Everyone knows the logical answer already.

[KMB4222]

13 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

You already answered your own question here. It's true from a logical standpoint, but it's not profound.

However, are you going to include this in your life purpose along with your skills and along with being unique? It doesn't seem like your answer is worth it. Everyone knows the logical answer already.

I see what you mean. I've been having difficulty describing what I've learned. In my original post, when I said "whatever you want to call it", I was trying to describe an entire package of not knowing, so to speak. Not limited to the body. 

Maybe what I was trying to describe is a sense of being present and acceptance of what is. And in my current experience, what is is this experiencing this. 

I realize this doesn't come across as profound. It's actually quite simple. Just this, right here, as it is. 

In terms of including this in my life purpose, I find that it fits quite well. My purpose is to help those around me feel better about themselves and about their lives, so they can feel valued and enjoy their lives a bit more (or at least feel better for a short period of time). The more connected I am with the moment the better I am able to ignore my egoic wants and hopefully focus on the other person. 

And besides that, it just feels good to let go of wanting something other than what already is. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by KMB4222

[Key Elements]

11 minutes ago, KMB4222 said:

I see what you mean. I've been having difficulty describing what I've learned. In my original post, when I said "whatever you want to call it", I was trying to describe an entire package of not knowing, so to speak. Not limited to the body. 

Maybe what I was trying to describe is a sense of being present and acceptance of what is. And in my current experience, what is is this experiencing this. 

I realize this doesn't come across as profound. It's actually quite simple. Just this, right here, as it is. 

In terms of including this in my life purpose, I find that it fits quite well. My purpose is to help those around me feel better about themselves and about their lives, so they can feel valued and enjoy their lives a bit more (or at least feel better for a short period of time). The more connected I am with the moment the better I am able to ignore my egoic wants and hopefully focus on the other person. 

And besides that, it just feels good to let go of wanting something other than what already is. 

Ok, that's good. Nothing wrong with the present moment and this reality. Yes, it is peaceful when you stay present. 

If your viewers/followers/clients/customers or whoever wants to go deeper, this person will have to go to someone else. If you knew more about the deepest truth, you'll be able to better guide them. But, don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with what you said.

[KMB4222]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Ok, that's good. Nothing wrong with the present moment and this reality. Yes, it is peaceful when you stay present. 

If your viewers/followers/clients/customers or whoever wants to go deeper, this person will have to go to someone else. If you knew more about the deepest truth, you'll be able to better guide them. But, don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with what you said.

Thank you for the reply. 

I certaintly won't be charging anyone for their time. I don't have any viewers, followers, or clients of any kind. 

I am curious about what comes next, though. Maybe there is a deeper truth to this experience. I don't know if there is a deepest truth, if such a thing exists. I feel that not knowing and investigating is a more realistic way of looking at this process. Anything that separates me from the present is a subtle form of escapism. At least in my case. I can't speak for anyone else. From my experience, all thoughts, goals, objectives, notions of attainment, etc. all lead back to now. 

Maybe there is a deepest truth, and maybe I will see it some day. I find I also have to be willing to not see it some day. Knowing that I may never know brings a radical sense of peace. It isn't a flashy kind of peace where I smile from ear to ear. It's actually more of a visceral existential agony. I still do my practices, but they are to deepen my connection with my direct experience. This is what I have been given, so I work with it and see what happens. 

 

 

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, KMB4222 said:

Thank you for the reply. 

I certaintly won't be charging anyone for their time. I don't have any viewers, followers, or clients of any kind. 

I am curious about what comes next, though. Maybe there is a deeper truth to this experience. I don't know if there is a deepest truth, if such a thing exists. I feel that not knowing and investigating is a more realistic way of looking at this process. Anything that separates me from the present is a subtle form of escapism. At least in my case. I can't speak for anyone else. From my experience, all thoughts, goals, objectives, notions of attainment, etc. all lead back to now. 

Maybe there is a deepest truth, and maybe I will see it some day. I find I also have to be willing to not see it some day. Knowing that I may never know brings a radical sense of peace. It isn't a flashy kind of peace where I smile from ear to ear. It's actually more of a visceral existential agony. I still do my practices, but they are to deepen my connection with my direct experience. This is what I have been given, so I work with it and see what happens. 

 

 

I think these are great points that you said here. Truth isn't taught. It's realized.

Two things:

#1. I could go right ahead and tell you what truth is right now.

#2. I could write it down somewhere in my life purpose in a cunning way, and the person could read it and remember it. Then, one day, if he/she experiences it, the person will have an ah-ha moment, and perhaps say to himself/herself, "So, that's what it is! ? Oh wow, I didn't know that!"

Point #2 is better IMO because it's a process. It's not something that is told and the person believes in it.

[KMB4222]

1 hour ago, Key Elements said:

I think these are great points that you said here. Truth isn't taught. It's realized.

Two things:

#1. I could go right ahead and tell you what truth is right now.

#2. I could write it down somewhere in my life purpose in a cunning way, and the person could read it and remember it. Then, one day, if he/she experiences it, the person will have an ah-ha moment, and perhaps say to himself/herself, "So, that's what it is! ? Oh wow, I didn't know that!"

Point #2 is better IMO because it's a process. It's not something that is told and the person believes in it.

You have a point - that truth is realized. I think I am at a stage where I am not willing to just believe anyone's claims anymore. I've done a great deal of work on myself in several areas relating to actualization/enlightenment/consciousness work. I haven't come up with what some people have claimed. I'm not saying it isn't there, just that I haven't found it yet (if it is even there at all). I'm open to the idea that everyone is delusional (including me), and therefore nothing that comes out of anyone's mouth can be taken at face value. Experience is #1 for me. I've had quite a few ah-ha moments, but naming them was never my strong point. What can I really call them except experiences?

That being said, I am curious what your understanding of truth is. Maybe we can have a discussion about it and I can learn something. But I do agree that Point #2 is the better way. So if you would rather not discuss it, that's okay, too. 

 

 

 

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, KMB4222 said:

That being said, I am curious what your understanding of truth is. Maybe we can have a discussion about it and I can learn something. But I do agree that Point #2 is the better way. So if you would rather not discuss it, that's okay, too. 

Have you noticed that the ppl who are famous and have experienced truth don't tell it to others directly? They tell it metaphorically. Even gurus who are not famous and actually live in caves, don't tell others directly. I think it's because they don't want others to be obsessed with it, and to continue to try to live a fulfilling life and to contribute to this world in a positive way. They don't want to ruin the process for anyone. Everyone is unique and will contribute to this world differently. It's because everything is you, and the truth is that no one likes suffering. (That's because when you experience truth there is no suffering--even though you're making a transformation back into your ego.) There you go. The statement in the () is part of truth. ? Also, the 10 Ox Herding Pics that was presented in one of Leo's clip points to the truth metaphorically. I like the 10 Ox Herding Pics told by Shinzen Young the best.

[KMB4222]

10 hours ago, Key Elements said:

I think it's because they don't want others to be obsessed with it, and to continue to try to live a fulfilling life and to contribute to this world in a positive way. 

Thank you for the reply. The line above summarizes how I feel about the entire process of waking up. There are elements of what I have learned that I don't share with other people. I've discovered that life is a delicate balancing act, and anything on my part that tips the scales too much in one way or the other is too devastating. It's actually painful to hold onto the truth when you see people around you living unconsciously.

I have wondered why those who know the truth (or their experience of it) don't tell people directly. I prefer hearing things very direct (as in Leo's method). I think the genuine teachers are in it to help people either learn the truth or lead better lives while waking up out of delusion. Some teachers are in it for the money, which is sad because it takes advantage of that delicate balancing act. 

One of my ah-ha moments was that I was never in control, and that my entire life has been lead from the outside. I never choose anything, even when I think I did. My entire life has been an infinite rarity, and I never made any of it what it is. Maybe at the core of this realization is that I am everything. That's just not how it came to me at the time. While I still experience myself doing things, there is also a sense of disconnection. Whatever it is, naming it doesn't seem to make any difference. The here and now seems more real to me than anything I try to connect with. Part of me understands that suffering is a condition of the physical body. If you take away the physical body, then things just are. 

I had an email exchange a teacher a while back. She told me that enlightenment in the sense of realizing you are God is just a fantasy. I wrote back describing what my gut instinct told me: that life is a beautiful mystery and we can never know why we are here and what we are supposed to do. One day I will die, and that will be the end of me, forever. She confirmed this was the case. She informed me that enlightenment is actually just the normal process of brain and psychological development, with the addition of actively seeking to negate falsity. Even though I think she is correct, there is a part of me that isn't so sure. Maybe that isn't all there is. But then I see myself just wanting to believe, dropping that belief, and ending up right back here and now. Maybe the trouble I am having is that I begin to doubt the validity of my realizations because I see myself forming concepts and beliefs around them. 

Thank you again for the comment and exchange

 

[Mu_]

Hey KMB4222,

Sounds to me like your in a authentic place of "spiritual" development.  Its a wonderful place, sound exactly where I was for a year in my process (if one is to give this a word).  A deep sense of not knowing, yet knowing you dont know and no need to know and a peace that comes with this.  Although in time you may even find you dont know if you are a "this" experiencing "this" and honestly its not even important if you do or not.  

Let me know if you resonate with this video.  Also much like yourself, I'm open to helping others with where ever there at with my free time.  If you are up for a chat/video or what not, send me a message.

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Mu_

[KMB4222]

@Mu_ Thank you for the comment and video. It was interesting how you mentioned that different people can have different aspects of the truth. I'm not content with following just one teaching, or taking one person's words as the definitive answer/truth. I'm trying to treat this entire process as a holistic endeavour, with essentially no end-point. 

I do find myself feeling closed off a bit more than I used to. Maybe I experienced a radical opening up followed by a radical closing off. Rather than coming to the conclusion that I am "this experiencing this", I should let that go as well, and allow another opening up to occur. 

Thank you for the insight! That was very helpful.

[Hellspeed]

@KMB4222 Then listen to what Leo said. 

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, KMB4222 said:

@Mu_ Thank you for the comment and video. It was interesting how you mentioned that different people can have different aspects of the truth. I'm not content with following just one teaching, or taking one person's words as the definitive answer/truth. I'm trying to treat this entire process as a holistic endeavour, with essentially no end-point. 

I do find myself feeling closed off a bit more than I used to. Maybe I experienced a radical opening up followed by a radical closing off. Rather than coming to the conclusion that I am "this experiencing this", I should let that go as well, and allow another opening up to occur. 

Thank you for the insight! That was very helpful.

Your welcome. And like I said if your up for talking just to see where it go’s im available. Either way you sound like your approaching this thing openly and honestly. 

[Nahm]

@KMB4222 Really enjoyed reading your posts. ??

[Shin]

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

Your welcome. And like I said if your up for talking just to see where it go’s im available. Either way you sound like your approaching this thing openly and honestly. 

 

So you're proposing to him but not to me ?

 

[KMB4222]

@Nahm I'm glad you did. Thank you.