is turquoise about systems or something else

[Aakash]

is turquoise about finding a haloistic system to fit into a model, because the problem is that by having so many open ended and deterministic factors for any given system, there's no way to find a perfect model but more like a fluid system that morphs around changes and adjust accordingly. is this what halocratic thinking is like practically speaking? 

[Forestluv]

That's a great question. A hallmark of Yellow is integration of perspectives to form a more holistic perspective. For example with mental illness, a yellow-level thinker would synthesis inputs from the environment, trauma, personal relations, psychology, bodily inputs, neuroscience, alterations in gene expression in the brain, chronically elevated cortisol levels etc. 

Yet as you mention, there are an immense number of variables. A yellow-level thinker may be motivated to discover all inputs and integrate them all together to form a predictive model. Yet at the Turquoise level, how many inputs are there? . . . (infinite). At the Turquoise level, there is understanding that there is one integrated whole and one cannot separate any things from the whole to create an external, objective model. Yet, that is not to say models are not practical at the human level.

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv so the underpinning nature of turquoise is basically spirituality in a sense, because its the harmonizing nature of one and zero (non duality) this is my current understanding so if we analyse leo's business for a moment, its states that everything in reality is one, but the lenses he shows is of a yellow thinking perspective but because he has shown the interconnectedness between everything as a whole it is basically turquoise. so what is that one integrated whole in your opinion ? 

[Forestluv]

@Aakash I think you are entering areas that cannot be explained in rational, logical terms and I would be aware of humans that try to do so. I've had many Turquoise-level experiences, yet I am not Turquoise-centered. My baseline conscious level is below Turquoise and I don't feel qualified to give you an answer from a Turquoise-grounded perspective. As well, there are very very few Turquoise-centered humans and it is an area with a lot of exploration.

I can say that much of Turquoise involves hyper-intuition, hyper-connectiveness and beingness. At first, it can seem very "paranormal". So your question kinda gets recontextualized at the Turquoise level.

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv it would be along the lines of an organism called life, reality, 

it has to stand alone and not in duality as systems would be duality (such as inflow/ outflow etc) 

so what are your turquoise level experiences that you can say that its turquoise level 

mystical experiences? 

but this is the reason i don't like mysticism being embedded into turqoise, it dilutes the line between turquoise spiral dyanmics (logical) and real non duality, which is no lense. 

hopefully @Leo Gura you can give some guidance about this thin line

Edited February 22, 2019 by Aakash

[Forestluv]

@Aakash Language and concepts break down at Turquoise. It’s more about being and direct experience than conceptualizing and intellectualizing.

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv  that makes no sense from a logical perspective, as it would do. 

maybe the theme is unity 

as in like you get to look at the unity from different perspectives, as there is no overarching single perspective

Edited February 22, 2019 by Aakash

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv  that makes no sense from a logical perspective, as it would do. 

Exactly, there is a lot of nonverbal essence in Turquoise that appears nonsensical from the perspective of other levels. 

Imagine someone in a group tells a nonsensical joke in a group of people. Everyone starts laughing except one person. That person says “I don’t get it. Can you explain to me why the joke is funny?” The joke teller responds “It’s not something that can be explained. If I tried to explain it, it wouldn’t be funny anymore”. 

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv i'm interested to see what leo says about his discoveries about turquoise. but thanks for your responses they've has helped direct my LP and root it in yellow, since i am unable to comprehend what turquoise is logically at current. 

[Forestluv]

28 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv  i am unable to comprehend what turquoise is logically at current. 

Nor will you be able to in the future. Turquoise is post-logic. A mind needs to let go of logic to enter this realm. You won't figure it out or be able to explain it logically. This is part of ego surrender - to surrender control of the mental narrative.

For example, explain to me in logical terms this sentence: "The gablish tecklot in the crisdort during plaktok"

A logical mind will dismiss this as being illogical nonsense that has nothing to do with it's desire or purpose. Notice how your mind has already dismissed Turquoise pointers and tried to downgrade them as Yellow.

28 minutes ago, Aakash said:

your responses they've has helped direct my LP and root it in yellow, since i am unable to comprehend what turquoise is logically at current. 

Turquoise is unpalatable to the ego. Yet, minds with direct experience in Turquoise would understand the nonsensical sentence above . . . but not how you think they would.

[Aakash]

Wait i have the spiral don beck book from leo's booklist, let me have a quick flick through to turquoise and i'll quote some of what he says so we can discuss further

[Vingger]

 turquoise is mean to see the big picture of those many systems

Edited February 22, 2019 by Vingger

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Aakash said:

Wait i have the spiral don beck book from leo's booklist, let me have a quick flick through to turquoise and i'll quote some of what he says so we can discuss further

You are taking the map as the territory. . . There is nothing wrong about conceptualizing about the map, just be aware it's the map, not the territory.

Personally, I would rather have direct experience with the territory. For example, I would rather spend a week exploring the actual territory of Australia than sit around the whole week discussing a map of Australia. After an hour discussing the map, I'd be like "Enough of the map. Let's go see some Koala Bears and Kangaroos!!".

Maps are useful to an extent, yet just as a guide. The real juice in life is in the territory.

[Aakash]

yellow -the prevailing world order is a function of a) the exsistence of different realityies and b( the inevitable patterns of movement up and down the spiral 

turquoise - universal force permeates all forms of life , energy, and exsistance ordering their movement changes and patters, preservation of eternal truths and forces of the cosmos 

in turquoise one not only learns through observation and participation but throguh the experience of simply being. the person trusts intuition and instinct, more expansive thinking

everything flows with everything else in living systems

interlinked cause and effect, interacting energy feilds and levels of bonding and communication yet to be uncovered

seeing everything at once, the first tier with a macro view of the world 

mutual interdependance 

while yellow tries to attach function , turquoise detects the energy feild that engulf, and flow naturally 

yellow connects the dots while turquoise flashes the art of all the colours 

they learn by becoming fully there, not just studying about it or feeling cozy with anything 

another approach is through paradoxes 

turquoise life consists of fractalsm repeating of the micro right through to the macro

while it ofter admits incomplete knowledge , its faith that unification is possible and that everything somehow connects to everything else

turquoise develops new version of spirituality

[Aakash]

mysticism is one of them, what would the others be 

gaia would be another one, 

i don't believe non duality is part of this category, like awakening and enlightenment- that is completely different to turquoise. 

its all the one world views in harmony together, but then realising that they are all pointing to the same thing leads you to expend your efforts into finding non duality. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Aakash

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Aakash said:

yellow -the prevailing world order is a function of a) the exsistence of different realityies and b( the inevitable patterns of movement up and down the spiral 

turquoise - universal force permeates all forms of life , energy, and exsistance ordering their movement changes and patters, preservation of eternal truths and forces of the cosmos 

in turquoise one not only learns through observation and participation but throguh the experience of simply being. the person trusts intuition and instinct, more expansive thinking

everything flows with everything else in living systems

interlinked cause and effect, interacting energy feilds and levels of bonding and communication yet to be uncovered

seeing everything at once, the first tier with a macro view of the world 

mutual interdependance 

while yellow tries to attach function , turquoise detects the energy feild that engulf, and flow naturally 

yellow connects the dots while turquoise flashes the art of all the colours 

they learn by becoming fully there, not just studying about it or feeling cozy with anything 

another approach is through paradoxes 

turquoise life consists of fractalsm repeating of the micro right through to the macro

while it ofter admits incomplete knowledge , its faith that unification is possible and that everything somehow connects to everything else

turquoise develops new version of spirituality

The koala (Phascolarctos cinereus) is an arboreal herbivorous marsupial native to Australia. It is the only extantrepresentative of the family Phascolarctidae and its closest living relatives are the wombats, which comprise the family Vombatidae. The koala is found in coastal areas of the mainland's eastern and southern regions, inhabiting Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, and South Australia. It is easily recognisable by its stout, tailless body and large head with round, fluffy ears and large, spoon-shaped nose. The koala has a body length of 60–85 cm (24–33 in) and weighs 4–15 kg (9–33 lb). Pelage colour ranges from silver grey to chocolate brown. Koalas from the northern populations are typically smaller and lighter in colour than their counterparts further south. These populations possibly are separate subspecies, but this is disputed.

[Aakash]

 

i don't want to misunderstand, so i'm gonna say i didn't quite get your point 

what i think your trying to demonstrate is that logic cannot define a truly turquoise world? 

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Aakash said:

 

i don't want to misunderstand, so i'm gonna say i didn't quite get your point 

what i think your trying to demonstrate is that logic cannot define a truly turquoise world? 

Logic is the domain of Orange. Turquoise is three conscious levels higher. Logic is within Turquoise, yet is much more expansive. 

Try to explain your what your neighborhood is like without using any words that contain a vowel. It’s really hard to do, no? 

[Aakash]

yeah so i'm asking what that is  that is the point i'm trying to get at, how can we explain turquoise, it doesn't need to be in the realm of standardised logic, even if you need to explain it with energy - it is a model, and therefore there is something there to understand. 

nevermind, i think were just going to go around in circles! we've entered a strange loop- where non of us have enough experience to talk about it, maybe we should quit while were ahead and wait for leo lol

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv thought id watch leo's video of turquoise again to much understand better, found out that i'm basically center of gravity is yellow, i have not yet seen the limitations of modelling to solve the worlds problems but i also know that because consciousness is the worlds problems and technically the view of having an ego, i see that i am begginner level turquoise, but i haven' taken any steps into actually going into turquoise, i do not believe that material possession, equality amongst all people will solve the worlds problems, but i do believe thinking in systems will and thats as far as i can go with my LP BECAUSE i do not wish to talk about consciousness and the real one problem that creates all problems. i do not have enough experience and knowledge i have built up to teach lol, what do you think of this decision? 

i wanted to know turquoise to see if i can integrate it into my life purpose, what will i do however, is intergrate eastern philosophy into systems thinking.