I want to believe.

[Paul92]

Firstly, please forgive me, I know I've been a pain in the ass on this forum before. The things I've said have often come from within a confused and scared state. 

The thing is, regarding nonduality and the like, I really don't believe. Simply because I have not had any experience of it. So again, bear with me, please. 

I really don't believe that everything is light and love. I don't buy into mediums and psychics. And I don't buy into a lot of the other things that come along with this sort of thing. 

But I wish it was all true, and I'll explain why. 

I love/loved life. I love the earth. I love animals. I love looking at stars. I love the universe. I don't want my experience to end. 

I've recently met a girl. And we've been dating and I think we're already falling in love. I don't even know how this all came about. I stopped looking for love years ago, and then just as I started exploring this stuff, here she came. And she's wonderful. Last night we went our, and it was truly one of the most amazing nights of my life. I never wanted it to end. She's wonderful. 

But one day I'll be dead. And so will she. One day, the universe will end again. Which means everything we might do together, any effect we have on the world, will be gone. So isn't everything pointless? It breaks my heart. Truly breaks my heart. I'm at work typing this and im having to hold back the tears. You might laugh at this, but it breaks my heart. 

People might say, "well you're only 26, you've got a lifetime to live! Enjoy your time here". But I haven't got a long time. Time, as we know it on earth, move so quick. Everything you look forward to, comes and goes. Like last night for me. I was so excited for the date, and I loved the experience, but now it's over. Which is fine, things have to end, I get that. I have the memory of it which is great. And there's the prospect of many other great nights. But it can't go on forever. Before you know it, you're 80 years old, basically waiting to die. Or are you already dead? 

It's controversial but I do think that consciousness is just chemistry. But I wish it wasn't. 

I'd give anything to be able to live forever in whatever form. I'd give anything to just spend eternity with this girl. 

Give me reasons why everything isn't pointless if I'm basically already dead.. 

[ajasatya]

@Paul92 amazing. your attachment levels are off the roof.

you have no idea what you're signing up for!

here comes the HEARTH OF GOD, looking for THE FIRE!

[Shin]

Everything is pointless and always have been, and that's the reason you suffer all the time, cause you project value and meanings onto experiences.

This can sounds negative to you now, but it really isn't.

Life is all about experiencing the present moment fully, and when you do, it is beautiful.

[TheAvatarState]

@Paul92 I'm glad to hear you're finding love again in your life, and that you had a wonderful experience last night. It's also a great improvement that you don't want this experience to end, quite the 180 from when we last talked. Is this the same girl you were talking about last time? 

So, actually I'd be concerned if you DID blindly believe in this stuff. You simply don't have the experience to know, and rightfully you don't buy into it. You shouldn't. That being said, it's possible to know through direct experience, to validate what actualized.org teaches. The invitation is open, and it isn't gimmicky. That requires some work on your part, however.  

[tedens]

You wanna belive but you can experience. What do you think which one is much more permament?

Edited February 21, 2019 by tedens

[Telepresent]

1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

But one day I'll be dead. And so will she. One day, the universe will end again. Which means everything we might do together, any effect we have on the world, will be gone. So isn't everything pointless? It breaks my heart. Truly breaks my heart. I'm at work typing this and im having to hold back the tears. You might laugh at this, but it breaks my heart. 

Depends on how you define 'pointless'. The feeling exists now, right? Has impact and meaning now, right? Enough that it breaks your heart?

There are two ways of looking at 'pointless', or 'meaningless'. One is a very negative sense which goes against our instinctive/biological/psychological nature - which craves meaning and purpose. 

The other way to look at it is that pointless simply means there is no inbuilt point, so you get to make your own. That's much more empowering IMHO   

[Forestluv]

@Paul92 Why are you giving more relevance to intellectual constructs that have been conditioned into your mind over the magnificence of your direct experience? Let go and dive into that direct experience. It goes much much deeper. The magnificence of life.

[Viking]

you will die one day but its all happening now, isnt it? dont you feel the meaning right now? does this meaningless really exist or is this what your mind imagined while thinking about the end?

life is both meaningless and meaningful, yin and yang. life happens to you right now, and yet you will die. its not one or the other, its both, its a flow from one to another. life sometimes is meaningful and  sometimes meaningless, and if you get stuck in one side you will suffer. be like water.

[Paul92]

@TheAvatarState  No, it's a different girl that I met a couple of months ago. It's just snowballed. It's come out of nowhere, and I love it. I'm tortured because I can see how utterly, utterly brilliant life is, especially with her in it. And I always thought this, overall. And now I feel love for this girl, that has seriously out of nowhere, and it makes me unbelievably happy but also catastrophically sad that this isn't going to last forever. This girl though, we seem to have connected. I know it's always different in the opening stages of a relationship, but I'm blown away by it all. But I think she's made me realise how great being alive is.

And people will say this is just because I'm attached to someone and that I should avoid that attachment and therefore I'll avoid suffering. But what's wrong with loving? I thought the whole point of all this was love. What's wrong with being happy?

I don't want to die. I don't want this to end. But it makes me unbelievably sad that it will. Time freaks me out at the moment. I know it is a construct, to sort of give order to life, but it moves so quick. Basically, I know I have in just one long 'day', if you like. Not seperate days, or months, years etc. But obviously I have grown, aged and I will decline and die. Like the universe.

I'd feel more at ease if I could understand that the universe will never end.

@Viking I never previously thought life was meaningless. Because I always thought it is about doing positive work to make the world a better place and putting things in place for future generations etc. And also, I thought life is about having fun. But if the universe ends at some point, then we are working for nothing.

Maybe the meaningless is something my mind has imagined... I don't know.

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Viking said:

you will die one day but its all happening now, isnt it? dont you feel the meaning right now? does this meaningless really exist or is this what your mind imagined while thinking about the end?

life is both meaningless and meaningful, yin and yang. life happens to you right now, and yet you will die. its not one or the other, its both, its a flow from one to another. life sometimes is meaningful and  sometimes meaningless, and if you get stuck in one side you will suffer. be like water.

 

Nice

[TheAvatarState]

@Paul92 let's get real here. The chances of you being with this girl more than a year are pretty slim. Maybe she's not the right one! You move on, find another woman. Nothing wrong with that. The problem here isn't your fear of impermanence, the problem is you placing your wellbeing onto one woman; putting all your eggs in one basket. Without the proper perspective, you're setting yourself up to potentially fall really hard. If you were to lose this woman in your current state, you would be wrecked! Tell me what's healthy about that...

Here's what you're really looking for, and perhaps it's something you didn't realize, but I see right through it. You're not comfortable in your own skin. You can't bear the thought of being happy alone, so you're placing your meaning and spiritual growth in another person, hoping that will be your salvation. But that's not gonna fly. Even if you get everything you wanted, you still won't be able to bring your full self to the table. That's because other people cannot complete or fulfill you, fundamentally. You grow WITH other people, a spiritual relationship can fulfill your needs, but only if there's no obstructions. Your clinginess and need for this woman is a big obstruction. 

Unless you get to a point where you are comfortable and stable by yourself, until you truly understand you don't need her to complete you, only then can a healthy relationship flourish. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but please consider it, for your own sake. 

[Nahm]

@Paul92 Delusion “loves” attachment. If the thinking feels bad, if the perspective feels bad, why entertain it? Why persist?

Rather - Inquiry & bravery.

 

[Paul92]

@TheAvatarState  Respectfully buddy, I honestly think you're way off here. Not being an arse, but I think you're missing my point. I've been single for over 6 years. I was happy before. I never considered existential issues. I was just happy. She's come along at a point where I as at my lowest and made me realise that I might have something to live for. The only issue is of course, it can't last forever and I'll be dead before I know it. Life goes by that fast, we are dead before we know it. It breaks my heart that really I love life, but it isn't going to last.

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@TheAvatarState  Respectfully buddy, I honestly think you're way off here. Not being an arse, but I think you're missing my point. I've been single for over 6 years. I was happy before. I never considered existential issues. I was just happy. She's come along at a point where I as at my lowest and made me realise that I might have something to live for. The only issue is of course, it can't last forever and I'll be dead before I know it. Life goes by that fast, we are dead before we know it. It breaks my heart that really I love life, but it isn't going to last.

Actually, If you really loved life, this wouldn't be an issue.

You fear to live it.

[Forestluv]

@Paul92  Joy and Sorrow are two sides of the same coin. Upon transcendence, they are one.

http://www.katsandogz.com/onjoy.html

[Telepresent]

24 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

 

24 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

It breaks my heart that really I love life, but it isn't going to last.

24 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

ok, so it's a question of focus. Do you focus on the happy good now feelings, or the thoughts that tell you it's all pointless and the feelings that come from that? 

Yes it is a choice

[TheAvatarState]

@Paul92 Respectfully, I think you should really think about what I said. It came out of nothing but respect for you and your wellbeing. I know you're going through a rough time, and that you "want to believe" in more ways than one, but it's really important to step back, observe, and take it slow. 

29 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

She's come along at a point where I as at my lowest and made me realise that I might have something to live for.

Really think about what you said here. You're implying that without her, you have nothing to live for. Am I wrong here? I could be, and I'm open to that... But be honest about how attached you are to this woman to give meaning to your life. 

[okulele]

Quote

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

-Mark 9:23-24

Maybe it's not exactly relevant, but when I saw the title I thought of this amazing quote. So here it is

[Highest]

Remembers me of a girl I meet two days ago. Amazing girl, amazing kind eyes. I just came back home from her place. The sad part is that she has cancer and a son 11 years old, she will die in about 6 months and her son will not have a mother to grow up with, but she will be in his heart forever. So I visioned something, I wanted her to have some good time. So we went and I buyed some weed and dope. We went to her place, just smoked and sniffed, had amazing sex for two days. I did this for her, she will never forget it and I will never forget her. She just wanted to live the time she had left, she just wanted to have a good time. Not afriad of death she told me, just sad that she can’t be with her son. I loved that woman. We will meet tommorow.

It’s all the One Consciousness expressing itself in two individuals, nothing more or less. But it’s not pointless or unreal, it’s just all about being Conscious. Life is real, life is love and passion. Because the One is omnipotent, anything can be real. Illusion is not = unreal or non-existent. It’s a tricky thing in itself. But nothing is actually illusion, everything comes from, is created by and IS the One.

[non_nothing]

Basically you cant prove me your death.