Is my Girlfriend Really an Illusion?

[now is forever]

32 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

I think it would depend on how much 'being' you bring into your 'doing.' When most people engage in activity they do so very unconsciously, without awareness of the present moment. When that happens the ego mind can take over and carry out the activity according to its own selfish survival needs, whereas if 'being' is present you're able to operate more from your true nature, at a higher level of consciousness. 

regarding underpants i guess being a skunk vs doing the change you can measure the conciousness in the activity. (if you are in access to a washing maschine or a sink and detergent)

Edited February 23, 2019 by now is forever

[Shin]

Please tell me I'm not gonna really die ???

[Wisebaxter]

@now is forever You will only be able to measure the consciousness in the activity if you're conscious to begin with. One thing I've started doing is making every movement or action I make a conscious one, even down to each single step I take when I'm walking somewhere. Then each action becomes a single unit, taken for it's own sake, without the end goal always in sight. It's like mindfulness on crack. It means you're always aware of the present movement and not focused on an end goal. It's our obsession with end goals that make us neurotic and disconnected from being, most of the time.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[now is forever]

@Wisebaxter yes.

 

but regarding underpants... you know what i mean. maybe it could be interesting to reflect on neti neti regarding underpants.

Edited February 23, 2019 by now is forever

[Wisebaxter]

@now is forever I am not my underpants? That could lead straight to a mystical experience...

Edited February 23, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[now is forever]

@Wisebaxter  

[Hellspeed]

"Is my Girlfriend Really an Illusion?"

NO!

 

The so called illusion is the East paradigm that everything that does not last is an illusion. So conceptualizing this is kind of a waste of time. 

[Truth Addict]

43 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

The so called illusion is the East paradigm that everything that does not last is an illusion.

Relative vs. Absolute.

45 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

So conceptualizing this is kind of a waste of time. 

Not true.

Grounding yourself in the Absolute is radically different from clinging to relativities.

Nevertheless, the relative (illusion) is still relatively useful.

[Markus]

Non-duality is something worth holding as a mindfuck or pointer to aid in contemplation, not turned into a philosophical subject of thinking. And especially not a subject of conversation with family, friends, or a significant other . Talking to regular people about non-duality is out of touch. They can't relate it with their lives. You're not meeting them where they're at.

 Trying to live based on non-duality as a philosophy is an awkward trap. What's actually valuable and fruitful is living by the feeling-truths you gain on the path. As soon as you make it logical, it becomes something it's not meant to be.

[Wisebaxter]

5 hours ago, Markus said:

Non-duality is something worth holding as a mindfuck or pointer to aid in contemplation, not turned into a philosophical subject of thinking. And especially not a subject of conversation with family, friends, or a significant other

@Markus Have you got any tips on how concepts of non-duality can aid contemplation? 

[Andreas]

Ask yourself the question. Why should you believe any of this? Why would your girlfriend be real? Why wouldn't she? Some people are wrong, some are right. You decide who's wrong and right for you. After all the experience is real. There is no way to disprove that. 

[Markus]

31 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Markus Have you got any tips on how concepts of non-duality can aid contemplation? 

I wouldn't phrase it like that. I just mean I suppose people could find some benefit in questioning the existence of self or other etc in contemplation. I'm not into that type of approach myself.

[Dumb Enlightened]

On 23/02/2019 at 4:09 PM, Markus said:

Non-duality is something worth holding as a mindfuck or pointer to aid in contemplation, not turned into a philosophical subject of thinking. And especially not a subject of conversation with family, friends, or a significant other . Talking to regular people about non-duality is out of touch. They can't relate it with their lives. You're not meeting them where they're at.

 Trying to live based on non-duality as a philosophy is an awkward trap. What's actually valuable and fruitful is living by the feeling-truths you gain on the path. As soon as you make it logical, it becomes something it's not meant to be.

When my wife starts to complain about something I'll say to her, I'm not gonna listen to you, you do not exist !!

She might throw a non existing object at my head 

[Wisebaxter]

3 hours ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

When my wife starts to complain about something I'll say to her, I'm not gonna listen to you, you do not exist !!

She might throw a non existing object at my head 

@Dumb Enlightened As long as your sense perceptions exist her ego identity/form will also appear to exist for you. The best thing would be to wear ear plugs when she's around and try not to look at her or touch her, to break the illusion effectively 

[Shin]

Broke up with her and let her tell you all about her sex life while you're single.

We'll see if she's real or not  

[Dumb Enlightened]

8 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Dumb Enlightened As long as your sense perceptions exist her ego identity/form will also appear to exist for you. The best thing would be to wear ear plugs when she's around and try not to look at her or touch her, to break the illusion effectively 

the funny thing though is that there isn't a direct evidence of her existence, or is there ? Because if I say, I see her, it is already a belief, a label, if all my memories right now just vanish, and I was in a room full of people, would I know that ' I, a human being, a man, was in a room, with other people', I don't think so. It's like if someday I wake up in a dream and it becomes a lucid dream, I can still enjoy the dream, but I don't need to take things to serious.

[Wisebaxter]

11 hours ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

the funny thing though is that there isn't a direct evidence of her existence, or is there ? Because if I say, I see her, it is already a belief

@Dumb Enlightened This is something I've grappled with as well, but now, after relying on my actual experience, I've realised that the things we see and experience, do exist, because we have the evidence right there. There is an object there. Any beliefs you have about your girlfriend that make up who she is (including her beliefs) are the thing usually referred to as an illusion. Look though, there she is, we can't deny that. As soon as we start doubting what's in our actual experience, we get a bit lost. But I think, when we start adding concepts on top of that, that's when things get confusing and the mind gets in the way. I've decided to stop thinking about it now and just focus on what's 'actual,' with no mind present. The longer you do that for, the more likely you are of realising the truth in your experience, without mind. There are truths to become conscious of, such as, apparently, the fact that you and your girlfriend are the same thing, you're one, but if that's focused on as a concept, this gets in the way of actually experiencing it? 

11 hours ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

if all my memories right now just vanish, and I was in a room full of people, would I know that ' I, a human being, a man, was in a room, with other people', 

This is an interesting thought experiment. What you're referring to is residing in a sense of 'no self,' or 'not knowing.' In this scenario you merge completely with perception and there is no observer and observed, just experience. This seems to me a powerful state that is very close to 'truth.' It can be manufactured throughout the day I find, again by letting go of mind. 

Please anyone come in and correct me on any of this as I'm very conscious I may be giving wrong advice or steering people in the wrong direction. I've suffered with monkey mind and a fixation on theory for a long time and I'm only just starting to move away from that into my heart more

Edited February 26, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

There is an object there.

 

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

there is no observer and observed

 

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

thing

 

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

this gets in the way of actually experiencing it

 

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

close to

 

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

anyone

 

1 hour ago, Wisebaxter said:

I'm only just starting to move away from that into my heart more

 

[Dumb Enlightened]

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Dumb Enlightened This is something I've grappled with as well, but now, after relying on my actual experience, I've realised that the things we see and experience, do exist, because we have the evidence right there. There is an object there. Any beliefs you have about your girlfriend that make up who she is (including her beliefs) are the thing usually referred to as an illusion. Look though, there she is, we can't deny that. As soon as we start doubting what's in our actual experience, we get a bit lost. But I think, when we start adding concepts on top of that, that's when things get confusing and the mind gets in the way. I've decided to stop thinking about it now and just focus on what's 'actual,' with no mind present. The longer you do that for, the more likely you are of realising the truth in your experience, without mind. There are truths to become conscious of, such as, apparently, the fact that you and your girlfriend are the same thing, you're one, but if that's focused on as a concept, this gets in the way of actually experiencing it? 

This is an interesting thought experiment. What you're referring to is residing in a sense of 'no self,' or 'not knowing.' In this scenario you merge completely with perception and there is no observer and observed, just experience. This seems to me a powerful state that is very close to 'truth.' It can be manufactured throughout the day I find, again by letting go of mind. 

Please anyone come in and correct me on any of this as I'm very conscious I may be giving wrong advice or steering people in the wrong direction. I've suffered with monkey mind and a fixation on theory for a long time and I'm only just starting to move away from that into my heart more

Exactly, sometimes I also think a lot about theory and theory and actually it doesn't help much, I've had lots of awakenings already but  nothing permanent yet, and I'm actually getting tired of talking and reading about, we tend to theorize too much about something that is difficult to be intellectually understood. I believe that letting go of the mind knowledge is the best way to do it

[Wisebaxter]

1 hour ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

Exactly, sometimes I also think a lot about theory and theory and actually it doesn't help much, I've had lots of awakenings already but  nothing permanent yet, and I'm actually getting tired of talking and reading about, we tend to theorize too much about something that is difficult to be intellectually understood. I believe that letting go of the mind knowledge is the best way to do it

@Dumb Enlightened Yeah definitely, I haven't had any awakenings yet, mainly because my mind is such a powerful force in my life. I've spend many years doing nothing but intellectualising. I've had big insights that have changed by consciousness, perhaps raised it, but nothing I'd consider mystical. I'm gearing up for a 250ug dose of LSD soon though. Had 150ug for my first one. Maybe I'll get a breakthrough, although apparently LSD isn't the best for this. Right now just a ton of self inquiry and observation practice seems to be getting me somewhere. Have you done many psychedelics?