is enlightenment permanent?

[clouffy]

is it a stage/ state?

like sadhguru getting those "trance", he said it was infrequent at first, but came at longer bursts...and then it became quite permanent

so i won't need to be scared to lose it once i "get" it?

sometimes i feel like deep insight/ realisation is something that can never be unseen...like something embedded deep into the memory of the body...

god, it would be such a bliss to be able to experience that...

[Forestluv]

I think there is a balance between seeking enlightenment and forming expectations about what enlightenment is like. I notice many people getting immersed into an enlightenment story that may never end.

Consider Leo's 10 Ox video. Once you get a good look at the Ox, can you ever "unsee" it? Well, no. Yet, can a mind-body get distracted and become re-immersed in it's self? Well, yea.

With that said, a good look at the Ox is extremely powerful and can fundamentally alter the orientation and experience of a mind-body. Yet, there is still more development after seeing the Ox. That is like stage 4 of 10.

Imagine you are a child that is curious what an electrical outlet does. So you stick your finger in the outlet and electrocute yourself. Is that realization and direct experience permanent? Sort of. It depends how you look at it.

[Gabriel Antonio]

Quote

“If there be anywhere on earth a lover of God who is always kept safe, I know nothing of it, for it was not shown to me. But this was shown: that in falling and rising again we are always kept in that same precious love.”
- Julian of Norwich 

“You cannot stay on the summit forever. You have to come down again…
One climbs and one sees: one descends and one sees no longer, but one has seen. There is an art of conducting oneself…
by the memory of what one saw higher up. When one no longer sees, one can at least still know.”
- René Daumal

 

Interesting read: https://jackkornfield.com/no-enlightened-retirement/

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Gabriel Antonio

[SoonHei]

@clouffy you are asking this question as EGO and I will give you the answer which I think works best for the EGO

enlightenment is always the case.

using metaphors: enlightenment is knowing that the tv screen is / was / will remain ON and that you are the screen itself.

 

right now, there's a tv show which is playing where clouffy, a character, thinks he is not enlightened

and this will be replaced with a tv show where the body/mind of clouffy remains and will know that it was always enlightened 

 

the TV SCREEN is always present. the TV SHOWS change. 

you are the TV SCREEN and not the TV SHOW

after "enlightenment" (self-realization) TV SHOWS will still continue, you will just start to "like" them more as you will not mind whatever happens in the show which happens to be playing at that time.

[Aaron p]

1 hour ago, clouffy said:

is it a stage/ state?

like sadhguru getting those "trance", he said it was infrequent at first, but came at longer bursts...and then it became quite permanent

so i won't need to be scared to lose it once i "get" it?

sometimes i feel like deep insight/ realisation is something that can never be unseen...like something embedded deep into the memory of the body...

god, it would be such a bliss to be able to experience that...

@clouffy a theory of mine is that Leo's methods lead to a more dramatic outburst of enlightenment all at once, as opposed to something that builds up. Notice how diluted and prolonged all of the teachings are from other gurus. Even (my 2nd favorite teacher of nonduality) mooji baba has quite an indirect and contextually rich presentation of the nondual path and when someone enters nirva after 10-25 years of practising with weaker techniques, it's possible that this is why some people experience a slow, gradual enlightenment. I mean, imagine staring at your breath  for years and years and years until your enlightened...holy fuck like. My theory suggests that, because it is more common to find teachings that will *slowly and gradually* guide the seeker on their path, usual enlightenment experiences are also more slow and gradual...

Whereas, Leo doesn't teach us weak techniques. Leo did his homework and handed us a fucking RPG each. Big guns. Sure leo had 1 experience that the recoredee entitled "my live  enlightenment experience" be. So you never know, but yes! That's what i love about this FUCKING WEBSITE. It's awesome. This is like...my dream come true. Spirituallity...it fucking beast. And I can't wait to get enlightened af. I remember thinking "aw shit, I don't like this life...fuck" HAHAH FUCK THAT...E.N.L.I.G.H.T.E.N.M.E.N.T. is so cool. And way better than a normal stupid human life. Then I'll return to my human life with an awesome mind, as God. ?????????Fuck ye

[Shin]

From the point of view of the ego, sure, you can, and will most likely lost it several times until it sticks (which means total surrender/abidance to it).

[Joseph Maynor]

I think some of the changes the Path can elicit in you are permanent.  Just like you don't go from being a 41 year old man back to being 17 years old.  Some of the changes are irreversible.  Ultimately Enlightenment is about unclinging from the Ego-Mind, so that has some permanent affects to it.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Raven1998]

in my case it sticks forover and you are free to do anything

[Carl-Richard]

On 20.2.2019 at 9:13 PM, clouffy said:

so i won't need to be scared to lose it once i "get" it?

It's the other way around. If you're scared that you will lose it, you'll never get it.

[Mvrs]

On 2/20/2019 at 3:13 PM, clouffy said:

is it a stage/ state?

like sadhguru getting those "trance", he said it was infrequent at first, but came at longer bursts...and then it became quite permanent

so i won't need to be scared to lose it once i "get" it?

sometimes i feel like deep insight/ realisation is something that can never be unseen...like something embedded deep into the memory of the body...

god, it would be such a bliss to be able to experience that...

Enlightenment is just a word there’s infinite realization to be had. The first few satoris are very intense . Then after a while it gets reinforced in everyday reality so much that it’s undeniable. You start to realize everyone already knew about what you realized. You start to realize the flimsy integrity of the dream. It literally becomes so obvious everyday that your dreaming . It makes no sense otherwise. But it’s not like an intense experience everyday once you finally get it . It’s just a knowing , a gratitude. The first time you realize it you will be crying very hard . When you fully really realize it, you cry, then you laugh, then you cry. Cause you realize how hard you took it on yourself and it was all a joke. Hope you find your way ....

[The0Self]

Permanent implies some "one" abiding in a state that it can find, know, have, and enjoy, forever. When the I/doer/beholder apparently dissolves, there can be glimpses of no-self, and the I can appear to return and then long-for its own absence -- though it can't seem to remember what it was like. When the I apparently falls away totally, there's nowhere for it to come back to, it was never there, and there are no more questions.

And btw, what you think you’re seeking is not what you’re seeking. If it was you’d just kill yourself on the spot. I think some others are too polite to say that. Enlightenment is not you becoming something else. It’s the end of you, and (in a sense) the beginning of something else.

Edited October 30, 2020 by The0Self

[Byun Sean]

in my experience it happens both with a bang and the growth continues on.

There is the initial ego explosion that feels like a lightning bolt struck your mind.

And then after that there is not really a 'you' anymore to control your life and consciousness flows through you effortlessly although some egoic structures are still intact.

Overtime though, these egoic structures get cleansed. This is why you may hear enlightened masters say something like. "I'm always meditating no matter what I am doing." Because from the awakened person's pov, the universe is meditating them 24/7. It's no longer an activity you choose but a way you are. 

From the person with an intact ego's pov however, they need to meditate as a habit consciously and frequently to get results.

 

[tsuki]

The path is not about finding something that is hidden from you, but about finding you yourself. You were always the case and will always continue to be. When you get it, you simply know, experientially, what "I" means.

As for the possibility of losing it, the person's part of seeking is a skill that is learned. When you master the piano, you can give better or worse performances, but these are dependent on circumstances (like having arms, for example). Some things fall off by themselves, after an awakening, but some have to be worked on until you make the change. Enlightenment gives you a good vantage point for that.

Edited October 30, 2020 by tsuki

[This]

I was trying to understand what is this enlightenment and how can i reach it without realizing that i myself had tricked myself into thinking that there is such a thing i need to reach. I cannot compare my current experience to anyone else's. Any state i'm currently in is The only possible state i can be in. I was asking myself who am i what is this but i could've said to myself "i'm a bucket" and it would've had the same impact ???

 

[erik8lrl]

Depends on your definition of enlightenment. If your definition is to be in higher states of consciousness at all times, then it is not permanent. The states of consciousness go up infinitely, and it is always shifting like a wave. You can not function as a human in super high conscious states(where reality melts down). You can be as conscious as you can while maintaining reality, but it will still fluctuate up and down, just less extreme the more conscious you are. This is by choice. My definition of enlightenment is the full realization of being/self/love, which will also lead to the end of seeking. To reach this point, you would have to experience absolute nothingness/infinite love directly. This is permanent; the knowledge of why everything is the way they are becomes absolutely clear, thus ending the seeking. This, however, doesn't mean you are in high conscious states all the time. After this, you are truly free to be whatever you want to be, so you are free to choose how you experience reality. And no matter how high or low your consciousness gets, you will always have this knowledge/being as a baseline.   

[Origins]

Is a traumatic brain injury permanent?

[Lenny]

@clouffy

Enlightenment is when you find something that was always there and was never not that way, and so, it can't really be called a "thing". It is not a state. It's like waking up from a dream. When you wake from a dream do you say: "I hope this new awakened state stays with me"..?

Also, what if what you experienced during enlightenment wasn't bliss? Would you still know that you had awoken? Could you become enlightened without feeling bliss? Are you feeling bliss right now, but just not conscious of it? Is there somewhere in you right now that is in bliss? Is all of you not in bliss? How much of your being are you representing right now when you say "I am not in bliss.. I wish I could feel bliss"? Is the you that you call you qualified to say that you are not already in bliss?

Would you be interested to contemplate these questions? Even if they didn't lead to bliss?

I just thought of another indicator.. Enlightenment is when you have no doubt that God exists. When God "is" before you had an opinion about it.

Peace dude,

Lenny