the pursuit of nothingness/emptiness

[Aakash]

no concept matches the true depths of emptiness and basically killing yourself to sacrifice the subjective experience is the goal. therefore, if its true that the self only reveals itself to the true self itself, then its simple there's no way to get there all that can happen is a staged breakthrough which you don't have any control of. therefore you must give up control 

does that mean that the breakthrough is dependant on pure luck and the choice of god itself, 

or will it definately happen if i do self-inquiry for 50 years?

[purerogue]

Can you give up control without doing self-inquiry?If you can let go of control without getting drawn back into ego then there is no need  for self-inquiry.

 

[Ethankahn]

@Aakash Ironically, pure empty awareness is still a perspective. Even if you're perceiving an empty void, you're still perceiving. But, that's not a bad thing! Perception and experience are not bad. Even Leo had a direct experience of Absolute Infinity. So there's no need to shun perspective. Accept it and be at peace

[tedens]

You have doubts what means that You have no practice.

Edited February 16, 2019 by tedens

[Aakash]

@purerogue but doesn't one need to experience the breakthrough of emptiness/nothingness to understand the very nature of being, isn't letting go of control only second best to this, your moves will become in sync i agree, however, you will still not know of the emptiness/nothingness that is actually present 

@Ethankahn  i am not talking about the perspective or percieving a void, when you reach emptiness in your journey, there will be no perspective, but being itself. i don't think leo has had a direct experience of the void, even if he did, he wouldn't be able to talk about it or mention it. there is not the possibility of experiencing it in your direct experience. 

[Aakash]

@tedens what do you mean? if i understood correctly i wouldn't say that your wrong, i didn't know what i was searching for until now and even then a search warrent cannot be permitted yet you still must take the path to search. and this is my point, its simply a single breakthrough that god permits himself. so if your ready to awaken you will awaken but you still must try until then. 

[Ethankahn]

 @Aakash Mind exchanging definitions? Your word choice is confusing to me. You say it cannot be described but then you call it a void. You say it's not a void but then you call it emptiness (which usually means void). Are you just using these words for lack of better ones?

[Aakash]

@Ethankahn i use them interchangeably when i say these words i mean basically reaching enlightenment is the point you reach the void or emptiness

[Ethankahn]

@Aakash Okay gotcha! Now I see what you're saying. However, you can still experience emptiness... that's all I was saying. Complete loss of perspective is not even an empty void

Edited February 16, 2019 by Ethankahn

[purerogue]

17 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@purerogue but doesn't one need to experience the breakthrough of emptiness/nothingness to understand the very nature of being, isn't letting go of control only second best to this, your moves will become in sync i agree, however, you will still not know of the emptiness/nothingness that is actually present 

Only thing I can tell you is that when you can experience true being, everything will come , it does not come like thunder and strike you with everything it got right away, answers will come them self.

Experience of nothingness could be helpful to know your true self better I guess, to find I you are looking for to tap into being, but I do not think that there is any need for it, when I first got to know nothingness I had no clue what it is about , except the fact that it is the place where everything comes from and it  was from mediation, not non dual state , or anything like that, besides non dual state is still not what you are looking for if you can no locate your true self, some people might think that non dual state is just  being, but you might as well still not know who you are in all of that mess, making it in completely something else. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by purerogue

[Truth Addict]

@Aakash @Ethankahn

Can I talk about experiences I never had?

[Ethankahn]

@Truth Addict Well?since there’d be no experience to talk about, you couldn’t do so meaningfully. But you could still point at them with labels like non-experience

[Aakash]

@purerogue yeah thats where i'm at, in a non dual state, but need to find emptiness or experience it atleast once to ground myself. 

how do you suppose i find emptiness or that true beingness, just meditate? 

it goes back to my first question, that again its not something you control, you can at best only hope to catch a breakthrough even if its not a full breakthrough like reaching pure emptiness. 

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Aakash said:

@purerogue yeah thats where i'm at, in a non dual state, but need to find emptiness or experience it atleast once to ground myself. 

how do you suppose i find emptiness or that true beingness, just meditate? 

it goes back to my first question, that again its not something you control, you can at best only hope to catch a breakthrough even if its not a full breakthrough like reaching pure emptiness. 

It is not really something you must control, it is always there, I would not even say that you must hold to it, it is more of a you must not let ego control you, it is there at all states of mind, unchanging, maybe try to see that which is always there in every situation, state of mind,, not thinking would be very helpful, will be less obstacles that get in your way, give it some time, experiment. 

[DrewNows]

@Aakash Relinquishing the illusion of control so to speak...or the ending of this “game” is also an illusion

when the game is seen clear as day only then will this “giving up control” or “going beyond the mind” happen/make sense 

sometimes we must first explore and pursue our desires and those things which we may be avoiding out of fear so to scratch the never ending itch in our mind 

Edited February 16, 2019 by DrewNows

[Aakash]

@purerogue @DrewNows  thanks ill take this into consideration

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

when the game is seen clear as day only then will this “giving up control” or “going beyond the mind” happen/make sense 

INSIGHT is an action that doesn't have its root in ‘giving up control’ which still remains subtle control. 

Mind/body only works in the groove of pursuing objective experience(desire in pursuit). It can easily invent ‘giving up control’ as one of its objective desires. This self sustaining mechanism will disguise itself as other than desire.

 

[DrewNows]

18 minutes ago, Jack River said:

INSIGHT is an action that doesn't have its root in ‘giving up control’ which still remains subtle control

It sure doesn’t. That’s why it’s so important to see the limitations and meaning behind the use of such descriptors

Edited February 16, 2019 by DrewNows

[Jack River]

In a sense, every step taken as body/mind towards nothingness/emptiness or away from body/mind remains a divisive action (desire/control based) of or as body/mind. 

Action of INSGHT sees so entirely/holistically that all action ceases.

No forward/backwards movement at all. As Body/mind is movement. 

INSIGHT sees the totality of itself and ceases all movement/action in any direction. As movement in any direction is an expression of awareness’s over fascination with objective experience. 

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Jack River

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Aakash said:

basically killing yourself to sacrifice the subjective experience is the goal.

Watch out for goal.  Goal is for the Ego-Mind.  Making a goal out of Enlightenment can lead one away from being not closer to it.  I know this is hard to wrap your Mind around.  But that ain't a coincidence because the Mind is an agent of Ego.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Joseph Maynor