How can I Choose to Awaken if I Have No Free Will?

[Wisebaxter]

12 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Surrendering to the realization that egoic free will is an illusion is part of evolving to post-egoic conscious states. Once I hit post-egoic states, the desire to explore the nature of free-will dissolved. There is a much stronger desire to enter post-egoic states. From a post-egoic perspective let's explore new realms. I don't care if we call it egoic decisions, infinite decisions, a hamster or a cartwheel. There is a calling to enter the magnificence of post-egoic being. 

For me, falling asleep is a good analogy. When I lay down in bed, if the personal ego is active the mind will stay awake, immersed in the personal story. "I should have done XX at work. If she hadn't said blah blah, then yabber yabber wouldn't have happened". To leave the egoic state of consciousness and enter a new state of consciousness (sleep), the personal egoic dynamics need to relax, surrender and let it happen. I'm not concerned with figuring out what force is guiding that process, if any. I just want to fall asleep.

Similarly, if there is desire to transfer from an egoic state of consciousness to a collective state of consciousness, it is a somewhat similar process. The personal egoic dynamics need to relax, surrender and let it take over. I'm not concerned with intellectually figuring out who/what is making the decisions. I want to enter the direct experience of being in these expanded conscious states. Hyper mind-body awareness. Healing one's own body. Paranormal frequencies with other awakened beings. Being past, present and future in the Now. That is where the juice is for my mind-body right now. The only reason I would want to figure out the "free will" or "decision" part is if it can help me enter those states. Otherwise, it's just building more cognitive constructs. I can see how that would be very appealing to other mind-bodys and it was for me for a long time. Just not right now. 

Ok, this is good stuff right here. You're saying that the key is 'surrendering' so you can enter the non-egoic state. One question I have here is - can you make decisions from a post egoic state? Or can they only be made from the egoic state? 

[Nahm]

@Wisebaxter

Waking in the morning, fully aware you had a dream. Within five minutes it’s forgotten. Why? Because awake, you are fully aware it was a dream, so there’s nothing to think about. You’re fully aware you dreamt it, you were the dream, you dreamt “you” in the dream, you were every facet of the dream. Simple. No call for thinking - it was just a dream. 

 

Thoughts about the dream don’t continue arising - because you are fully aware it was just a dream. What is there to think about? Nothing. You are fully aware it was a dream. It would be silly to think and think and think about it. 

Do you think, “but wait, what about the scenery?”     No, because you are fully aware it was a dream.

Do you think, “but wait, what about all those people?”       No, because you are fully aware it was a dream.

Do you think, “but wait, what was I? Did I make decisions?”       No, because you are fully aware it was a dream.

 

While you are not fully aware this reality is a dream - there is desire - the desire is to be fully aware. 

This is why you have dreams in your sleep. So that when you wake up, you can experience “it was a dream”. But do you listen to that? Nope. You ignore it, and start thinking. All day. 

 

When you are fully aware that this is a dream, you stop having dreams at night in sleep. Likewise, your brain stops overthinking. 

 

So the only worthwhile question is, what are you doing to become fully aware?

Welp, you’re thinking. And talking. 

Is that working?

No.

Why not?

 

You only ever have but one choice:

Let thinking go, by surrendering yourself, accept this is a dream, and be done thinking. Most people can’t do this. Why is that? Because most people are too deeply deluded in believing this is not a dream, and they are a separate, real, person. As such, this “real person” has needs - food, sex, worth, validation, relationships / love from other “real persons”. Asking them to become fully aware this is a dream = asking them to give all that up. So, it might be helpful, if in this life, you get yourself to a place of not needing these things from other people. Upon fully awakening, will you have actually given anything / anyone up? No. You’d have merely given up delusion. That’s all. 

Or

Get serious about seeking. Research reality down to nothing. Inquire into yourself, down to nothing. See these are the same nothing. Double, triple, quadruple your practices, schedule retreats, talk with those who are fully aware they are but a dream, take trips, etc. 

You are dreaming, you are the dream. So there is no one here who can wake you up. Just as when you dream in your sleep, no one can enter your dream to wake you up. 

 

Wake yourself up. 

Don’t reply. Don’t acknowledge “me”. Self inquire, now. Meditate, now. Schedule a retreat or trip, now. This adventure is well afoot. You don’t have time for me. You don’t have time for more thinking. 

 

Find God within you. Let Him be your dream sledgehammer.

“Let there be NO doubt about it....put your mind at rest”.

 

“Let me remind you, that Love will find you - let it lift you out - you are beloved.”

[Jack River]

5 hours ago, Aakash said:

yeah i'm with you on what you said, so you decide to live in one unitary movement in the now

No I, as all of us whether we notice or not dwell as KNOWING. Yet for me from or as KNOWING if any movement arises I don’t separate myself from “it”.

It’s all I.

I never started off with I am not this or that in my type of inquiry. I started off by seeing that I am not separate from the movement itself at the beginning. I started with thought/emotions (subject-object) as we have already spoken of. So conflict(suffering) or feeding duality as a separate self had been seen through at that early level.

In this ‘seeing through’ (holistic insight) was its own action that shined light on the falsity of conflict/suffering. So for me conflict/suffering created by separating aspects of experience was already exposed and shown as self imposed/self sustaining. In this seeing its ended. 

5 hours ago, Aakash said:

whilst i'm still not so far ahead in my embodiment, i find it difficult to stay in the unmodulated non activity, or am unable to detach as clearly as you said. but is it really wrong, to remain in conflict with thought-time modulations and end your search there.

Not a wrong or right type of deal. But that’s kind of what I mean by being able to discern between KNOWING and movement. Not getting mixed up. In that there is inherently the effortless resting in KNOWING OR headlessness. 

5 hours ago, Aakash said:

by this point everything is already an illusion to you,

This relates to your prior statement about embodiment as non-activity.

An illusion needs its ‘underlying reality’ right?

Where this illusion is seen as such lies it’s reality..do you see what I mean? 

This helps in discerning. It’s not like in the presence of illusion or movement the reality is not included in that experience. It is there. As long as we divorce these “two” from one another in experience we find ourselves unable to discern the “difference”. 

I think it’s common what we are talking about though. Isn’t this stuff interesting dude? 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Jack River

[Aakash]

@Jack River so you accept everything because of the underlying knowingness which is the ultimate truth, you can't divorce the two and therefore you keep the i as what ever experience you experience? and you accepted responsibility for your actions.

20 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Not a wrong or right type of deal. But that’s kind of what I mean by being able to discern between KNOWING and movement. Not getting mixed up. In that there is inherently the effortless resting in KNOWING OR headlessness. 

whats the difference between knowing and movement, i thought they were the same thing? 

[Jack River]

15 minutes ago, Aakash said:

so you accept everything because of the underlying knowingness which is the ultimate truth, 

No. The acceptance or resistance problem/conflict ends at I am not distinct from the problem/question of should I accept or resist. To me resistance to what-is involves an entity (body/mind) who chooses between these two options. With INSIGHT there is not choosing. ‘Choosing’ on the relative level is a sort of procrastination. Food for ego. Sustains it’s own illusory continuity. 

15 minutes ago, Aakash said:

you can't divorce the two and therefore you keep the i as what ever experience you experience?

By not divorcing the “two” (subject-object activity) what remains as KNOWING? 

15 minutes ago, Aakash said:

and you accepted responsibility for your actions.

Action from this point of view has already claimed responsibility. Any action that arises from this place of order/security will be responsible. 

15 minutes ago, Aakash said:

whats the difference between knowing and movement, i thought they were the same thing? 

They are and they are not?

Edited February 15, 2019 by Jack River

[Aakash]

@Jack River how are they not the same is what i was really asking? 

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

@Jack River how are they not the same is what i was really asking? 

This is in reference to your embodiment statement. In regards to discernment. Do you see the apparent distinction? 

This was what I was speaking of with the illusion & reality part of my previous posts. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Jack River

[Aakash]

@Jack River i got confused, but its okay! thanks

[Pallero]

Free will and no free will are both true. They are two different perspectives.

Having a desire for awakening means it has been created for you. If you surrender, it happens.

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, Aakash said:

@Jack River i got confused, but its okay! thanks

yep. I figured. Communication makes things merky. 

The question is not separate from the answer and the answer isn’t found anywhere but ‘here-NOW’ (in or as YOU) anyhow.

You are your own best teacher?

Edited February 15, 2019 by Jack River

[Aakash]

i read some pages of a book and understand the difference, the unitary movement is the awareness moving as a whole movement. but the knower is the underlying nothingness that exsist.  so they are different but at the same time, the same thing! 

[OmniYoga]

free will seems to be total illusion
what did you really choose as you?
name at least one thing that is not influenced by outside reality

[Privet]

If we assume that you are already enlightened but you distract yourself from that we can say that enlightenment is rather unchoice than choice.

It seems that we rather choose unawakening than choose awakening, and awakening happens when we let go of choice of unawakening.

Although, if we dig deeper those are not two different things, at least this is what tells my unawakened logic.

[Jack River]

3 hours ago, Aakash said:

i read some pages of a book and understand the difference, the unitary movement is the awareness moving as a whole movement. but the knower is the underlying nothingness that exsist.  so they are different but at the same time, the same thing! 

So as the I is aware right now do you see how it all works together? It’s like being able to observe with different points of view simultaneously. You can discern and identify space/time activity in your day to day living. So you dont have to as I said before systematically go back and keep asking yourself who is aware of this activity.

Harmony dude. No effort, no conflict, no feeding the habitual mind/body unconsciously, which prevents sustained and uninterrupted KNOWING or headlessness. 

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Jack River

[Aakash]

Yeah i see, because it is you (god) anyway thanks alot dude  

[Jack River]

@Aakash were just “two” interested ?’s investigating experience right?

So if I were to miss or not discern a certain experience from the KNOWING of it and because of that got drawn in to the story I would be feeding the character? 

Do you see how this would recycle the mind/body point of view in “future” experiences? 

And how mechanical/systematic redirecting, while can be beneficial, will also limit this interval of KNOWING? 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Jack River

[abrakamowse]

@Nahm  ???????????

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Wisebaxter

It's not your choice. You may decide you are ready to receive anything that comes your way, and allow god's will, but the rest is up to god, and the depth of your surrender.

[Wisebaxter]

 

5 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Wisebaxter

It's not your choice. You may decide you are ready to receive anything that comes your way, and allow god's will, but the rest is up to god, and the depth of your surrender.

@Anton Rogachevski Well put, that makes sense 

I'm gonna follow @Nahm on this one and just become as aware as I can. Also, I like what @TheAvatarState said: 

Quote

Let me put it really bluntly: Get out of your own fucking way and see what happens. 

Ultimately this question of free will, it seems to me, cannot be answered for me in any simple fashion. I still have questions, despite all of the great answers and insights given here, so the way forward is to have a direct experience of what's true. If I keep asking questions I'm just going to create more mind chatter for myself and get further from the truth. This has been a brilliant thread though and I'm loving reading all of these different perspectives. It sounds like a lot of you guys have realised the truth of this one but trying to communicate it with words to someone who hasn't experienced it will always be a challenge. I'm actually quite bloated full of theory and concepts in general at the moment and I'm going to leave it all behind for a while and do nothing but self inquiry, which has been blowing my mind recently and bringing me closer to the truth, I can feel it. My consciousness seems to have altered somehow from doing it, it's hard to say how exactly but I feel a lot more present, calm and in touch with the truth, even if I haven't fully grasped what that truth is yet. Thanks for all your help on this one guys, much love to you all  

Edited February 17, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[purerogue]

your character has no free will, you have all the free will you need, stop confusing something that you are not with who you really are.