Is pursuing enlightenment dangerous unless your are at a certain level in life

[noselfnofun]

15 hours ago, Jack River said:

SELF UNDERSTANDING takes all one’s energy. If you are caught in a cycle of contradiction and are feeding off that contradiction, chances are you will continue wasting necessary energy to understanding yourself(SELF KNOWLEDGE). It’s obvious to say what ever is done out of confusion leads to more confusion. How we view ourselves/others/world determines the action we take. 

It seems common in society that such mental health problems influences what we do or do not do. Unless we see clearly, we are not able to make healthy decisions. And such action will be expressed in relationship. I mean look at “society”, isn’t it clear what has happened?

Cool, could you give examples of what you mean by contradictions? Like someone who is pursuing enlightenment but goes out sleeping with escorts, taking drugs and is mean to people ect, you mean something like that? 

[Joseph Maynor]

@Faceless Faceless is back!  You took a sabbatical dude.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[noselfnofun]

@Jack River

I defo agree with this and its a beautiful understanding. It dose need context tho, we as humans do want to return home to our true nature and even though every action is a reflection of awareness certain actions for some reason are more likely going to send us back to our true nature than others. A monk is a lot more likely to achieve this then say a guy working at a slaughter house who drinks, smokes and has lots of destructive addictions. These higher understanding should be saved until one dose reach a place of self transcendence, then yes you can clearly see that every action is just a reflection of awareness. I feel its the danger of the none duel understanding is one can trick oneself into thinking your higher then you are intellectually and they still have work to do. 

 

[Jack River]

@noselfnofun

i feel ya

Pursuing what we want to be and turning a blind eye to what we are, in regards to resistance to the experiences we have as a divided subject that strives to become that which it objectifies. 

Looking for instant gratification in habits. One desire will not mesh well with another, leading to confusion/conflict. Then with that conflict the confused mind continually escapes that state of conflict to its objects of experience(habit-addiction). 

If we live according to such patterns and have to spend our day to day locked up in a job that we hate, we will obviously waste necessary energy in indulging in various pleasures and so on. All of which are the same groove of desire(fear-resistance). Even goes for relationships build upon images of one another. The girlfriend or boyfriend demands your time to fulfill her/his numeral needs. No space and silence to self explore with all that going on. 

Living in misery, yet superimposing an idea of misery’s opposite(mind pattern) in which still sustains misery. Being insecure and chasing its opposite of security by means of abstraction (objects of desire). And the more subtle aspects of living in an abstract convention of theory(thoughts playground), which again perpetuates psychological time(ego). All forms of escape, resistance, psychological becoming. This is a waste of energy. It strengthens subject/object division of ego/mind. 

Unfortunately, many people cannot or are not willing to put there seemingly necessary lifestyle on hold in order to self explore. People want peace, freedom, a taste of there inherent nature, yet every step they take is one step away from it. 

Anyway, I am sure glad I live simply, otherwise I’m not sure I would have been able to really observe myself over the last 6 months. Makes all the difference. 

 

 

[noselfnofun]

@Jack River cool, did you spend a long period of time just solely focusing on this, like did you live in a ashram or something for a bit?

 

[Jack River]

3 hours ago, noselfnofun said:

@Jack River cool, did you spend a long period of time just solely focusing on this, like did you live in a ashram or something for a bit?

 

Nah lol. I have come upon this understanding over the last 6 months through self observation, with a little help from a few friends. 

Luckily I have never been one to get to caught up in the rat race. I live very minimally without the responsibility of a family and such fortunately or unfortunately. And luckily I never accumulated so much that it ended up owning me. Having the time to self obseve is important. I feel after this SELF KNOWLEDGE is recognized things fall into there place and actions we take are in order naturally. 

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Jack River

[noselfnofun]

On 12/02/2019 at 6:01 PM, Jack River said:

@Jack RiverYes I'm quite lucky atm too as I also am not caught up in the rat race too much. I don't have many obligations, I have been on many meditation retreats however and that seems to be when i make the most progress. I do wounder if spending a long period of time to souley focus on this path would be a wise option as I feel trying to jam it in a normal life you just might not get enough time to reach your full potential. Though not sure. 

[Jack River]

5 hours ago, noselfnofun said:

On 2/12/2019 at 10:01 AM, Jack River said:

@Jack RiverYes I'm quite lucky atm too as I also am not caught up in the rat race too much. I don't have many obligations, I have been on many meditation retreats however and that seems to be when i make the most progress. I do wounder if spending a long period of time to souley focus on this path would be a wise option as I feel trying to jam it in a normal life you just might not get enough time to reach your full potential. Though not sure. 

Fosho

It’s just fascinating to me now.  

 

[Nahm]

48 minutes ago, Jack River said:

RiverYes I'm quite lucky atm too as I also am not caught up in the rat race too much. I don't have many obligations, I have been on many meditation retreats however and that seems to be when i make the most progress. I do wounder if spending a long period of time to souley focus on this path would be a wise option as I feel trying to jam it in a normal life you just might not get enough time to reach your full potential. Though not sure. 

Who isn’t caught up in the “rat race”? Who “doesn’t have obligations”? Who is “making progress”? Who is seeking “full potential”?

Self inquire, you might find the knower is the known, the “self knowledge” is the self.  

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Who isn’t caught up in the “rat race”? Who “doesn’t have obligations”? Who is “making progress”? Who is seeking “full potential”?

Self inquire, you might find the knower is the known, the “self knowledge” is the self.  

? indeed 

I Think @noselfnofun is simply referring to having the time to self reflect. Really getting in touch with our self. 

[Nahm]

@Jack River ...confusing...wasn’t that your post?....?

7 hours ago, noselfnofun said:

On 2/12/2019 at 1:01 PM, Jack River said:

@Jack RiverYes I'm quite lucky atm too as I also am not caught up in the rat race too much. I don't have many obligations, I have been on many meditation retreats however and that seems to be when i make the most progress. I do wounder if spending a long period of time to souley focus on this path would be a wise option as I feel trying to jam it in a normal life you just might not get enough time to reach your full potential. Though not sure. 

 

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Jack River ...confusing...wasn’t that your post?....?

 

No. That was @noselfnofun‘s post. 

I think they are asking if we can self explore and be active in society. I feel initially we need some time alone to really get in touch with I and the I’s activity. What do You think?

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jack River

[OmniYoga]

rather not
but i doubt it solves any of the major life problems
beside the fact you might take actions from different state of consciousness/mind

Edited February 14, 2019 by OmniYoga

[Jack River]

If the action taken is whole then there will be no hesitation in action. No confusion of what is “right or wrong” psychologically or no sense of being torn between two or more responses. The essence of our action has its root from a place of equanimity. As to act without the conflict of duality. 

Simply every action taken is “right action” or action expressed from a place of order. Of course there may be mistakes, but those mistakes are may be made by interpreting and applying correct or incorrect information.

But the essence of action has its root in truth(I AM). 

Intelligent action. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jack River

[Nahm]

@Jack River 

Direct experience is always king, we don’t know what we don’t know, especially when we think we do...and awareness alone is always enough, so both. One would have to experience both to know, to have awareness to the distinctions vs thoughts about the distinctions.  Knowing one and not the other does appear to leave a lot of room for projections like ‘rat race’, ‘9-5’, ‘prison’, etc. It’s also pretty much contingent on wether one even has the luxury of someone else to support them. At the same time, not everyone would want that option, even if it was available, and maybe for good reason. I don’t see where personal development, to the degree one can meet one’s own bodily needs would not be intelligent action. That’s nothing more than a perspective though. 

Exploring / adventuring the life / world, exploring the thinking & emotions, same ‘thing’, same Self.  One should probably first look at why their perspective is divided to begin with (one or the other). The one or the other thinking seems to be contingent on an idea of limited time. Typically when someone uses time to create a one or the other delimna, they are looking at what they “can’t do / don’t have time for”, versus looking at how they are already spending their time. That is simply to be human though. 

[bejapuskas]

As long as you don't become a zen devil and don't misuse your mind, I think it's all right. Maybe stage green is a good indicator in my opinion  

[Jack River]

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Direct experience is always king, we don’t know what we don’t know, especially when we think we do...and awareness alone is always enough, so both.

I agree direct experience is king. But direct experience to one who is not so in touch with what is direct and what is not will have issues discerning between these two apparent distinctions. To one who is still in conflict with the contents (objects) of experience they will be to overly focused on those objects as means to escape the emotions/thoughts experienced. So yes both are necessary, but to me initially Time is required to really get in touch with ourselves without distractions of the “rat race” drawing us back into resistance. 

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

One would have to experience both to know, to have awareness to the distinctions vs thoughts about the distinctions.

Agreed. 

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Knowing one and not the other does appear to leave a lot of room for projections like ‘rat race’, ‘9-5’, ‘prison’, etc. It’s also pretty much contingent on wether one even has the luxury of someone else to support them

I’m afraid you are misunderstanding me my dude. I never said don’t support yourself, to get standard needs meet, I just mean the remainder of ones time will be spent on self knowledge. You will even incorporate day to day as learning experience. When I use the term rat race I simply am referring to conforming to the idea of fulfilling your role as a contributing member of society and that you are merely a puppet and your role as a civilian is more important than the intimate connection that you have with life itself. Working/career and such are not bad in and of themselves, but without our inherent connection with source we are destined to live contradictory/unsatisfactory lives. That’s pretty obvious right? 

 

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

At the same time, not everyone would want that option, even if it was available, and maybe for good reason. I don’t see where personal development, to the degree one can meet one’s own bodily needs would not be intelligent action. That’s nothing more than a perspective though. 

Most definitely personal development has its place. But I’m not speaking of that here. I’m speaking of self knowing. The capacity to development derives it’s energy from this place of intelligence. Intelligent action is what I am referring to by action taken from the place wholeness. To me development is effortless and not limited by the finite mind. 

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Exploring / adventuring the life / world, exploring the thinking & emotions, same ‘thing’, same Self.  One should probably first look at why their perspective is divided to begin with (one or the other).

Indeed. 

 

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The one or the other thinking seems to be contingent on an idea of limited time. Typically when someone uses time to create a one or the other delimna, they are looking at what they “can’t do / don’t have time for”, versus looking at how they are already spending their time. That is simply to be human though. 

Indeed. This is why I feel learning about ourselves brings light to this. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jack River

[Jack River]

I wouldn’t personally recommend someone quit there job, although personally I did.

It was worth it to me. But I did what I needed to do to support myself (food/shelter). For some of us the apparent disconnect to source makes things seem simply meaningless. When your on a precipice you act. And you don’t wait around wondering what you should do. You act. 

Should one wait till they are a certain growth level before self exploration?, if you feel so, yes. 

Should one risk all in order to discover themselves?, sure, what ever floats your boat. 

Remeber, prickles and goo?

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jack River

[Nahm]

Thanks for the response, I love talking with you man. It’s becoming a tinge bitter sweet. Understanding you much more, and already starting to miss the fun when I didn’t. Lol.  I see all of that and agree, and it’s really beautiful and visionary btw. That’s a better world you’re talking about.  I respect your decision to quit the job, and do what you need to do to get by and continue on the path. I think you’ll realize the self knowledge you’ve committed to, and I would not be surprised if a life purpose, or divine trajectory for this life, if you will, arises. I can easily see you helping a lot of people with what they really need most, and know of the least. 

Side note....prickles and goo & neither, ...not one or the other...?  

 

 

[Jack River]

@Nahm I enjoy taking with you as well. 

21 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I think you’ll realize the self knowledge you’ve committed to, and I would not be surprised if a life purpose, or divine trajectory for this life, if you will, arises. I can easily see you helping a lot of people with what they really need most, and know of the least. 

I have found I AM, or reside in or AS what has never not been(healdensss),yet I just need to find a way to express that in action. I think i know a way I want to express this understanding, so we will see. 

Anyway thank you too for the posts. I have noticed your posts lately and appreciate the style of communication. ?

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jack River