why some people attain enlightenment faster then others?

[Nahm]

@electroBeam Agreed. One can know what gravity is. 

[electroBeam]

51 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Sure, as long as you keep in mind that all this is just play, and that the scientific understanding -- even on its own terms -- will never be remotely complete.

on the one hand, it is just play - but keep in mind, this play was created, and it wasn't created by beliefs, it was created by god. This play has god in it, it is made of god's intelligence. 

[electroBeam]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

 

“Understanding” = Infinite Humor, like a punchline “needs” the setup. 

Without “understanding”, there is no inner & outer world, only crystalline emptiness, thoughtless and without movement.

Interesting, but, when an enlightenment experience is happening, there is an understanding of it. Its an understanding that there is no inner or outer world. 

understanding does = infinite humor, but it wasn't created by illusion, it was created by god. This is deeply significant, the understanding has God in it. This is also different to nothingness and everythingness. It explains how the world was created, instead of what it is fundamentally. 

[Shin]

[Aakash]

patterns are part of the maya that exsist 

awareness playing with awareness and patterns may form 

i.e the pattern that there are more humans than animals

these patterns form the basis of our understanding, because as a subjective perspection we can only truth something if it reoccurs enough to understand it. 

if i use mental illness as an example 

if my eye sight is damaged does that cause me to lose cognitive power, the theory is more than viable even though i just made it up. and it is not because its not proven in theory and thats why it can only exsist as a hypothesis. science can only work if there is a definition of an eye and of the term cognative power. all words  and numbers are dualistic and therefore all theories and understanding are too. 

if i said infinity x infinity you cannot calibrate that into a pattern because its itself the same definition two times. 

still even if it reoccurs enough, we can form subsequent causal relationships through relativity (hence einsteins theory is relative to the theory of why physics exsist) 

but it doesn't change the fact, that the pattern is not absolute and therefore science is not an absolute topic but is relative. enlightenment is also a relative topic because it can never point to the thing that is really there. its path is only a pointer, just like science is only a pointer to the pattern that is awareness playing with awarnesss

Edited February 10, 2019 by Aakash

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

Without “understanding”, there is no inner & outer world, only crystalline emptiness, thoughtless and without movement.

‘Understanding’ arises between movement  

Understanding in essence arsies “from”, or better yet as THE SUBSTANCE (?). 

[electroBeam]

3 minutes ago, Aakash said:

 

but it doesn't change the fact, that the pattern is not absolute and therefore science is not an absolute topic but is relative. 

yes, but that's not point. Science doesn't tell the truth, but something made science, something was the almighty creator of science, something created all of the patterns science observes.

There are some truly magnificent and beautiful patterns in the world that are deeply mind fucking.

What is it that created that? Just think what could have created such an expansive and deeply intelligent set of patterns?

Hint: its not you (the ego)  and precisely because of this point, Maya as it stands is deeply intriguing for its own sake. 

[Aakash]

@Jack River here here i agree understanding arises between the illusion of movement and thats why ALL theories created ever exsist upon the structure of time. time is the craziest illusion of them all. i proved the absolute in terms of physics, but i burned the knowledge because it was dualistic and should not exsist in reality even though it basically proves that 1D, 2D,3D, 4D are all illusions.

i told my parents they just laughed at me, if you guys want ill write it up again, but you gotta promise not to publish it because its falsehood  

[winterknight]

14 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

on the one hand, it is just play - but keep in mind, this play was created, and it wasn't created by beliefs, it was created by god. This play has god in it, it is made of god's intelligence. 

Anything you can talk about is most certainly "created by beliefs."

Putting the investigation of God's creation on a pedestal can be an attachment that is dangerous to the spiritual search.

[Aakash]

@electroBeam it was not created, the world of maya is an illusion that exsist on top of reality, there's no infinite intelligence creating or having a motive towards anything, its not trying to be creative. understanding is in the gap like jack said

yes it can be termed infinite intelligence, but it again is only part of the maya 

all of leo's work like he has stated is the map not the terratory. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Aakash

[tedens]

Can you tell me what is being?

[Aakash]

@electroBeam believe me like leo i am most certainly interested in the intelligence at play, might even make it my life purpose to find out how to make children understand and interpret alot better. but i'm in agreeance with winter solider here, it is a very big distraction and in the hindu tradition, transcending the maya is how to pass that level, not getting lost in it and finding out how it works, but you can most certainly do so and i'm sure you'll find amazing patterns. to me personally when i realised leo's life work of how self-deception works , to me thats the greatest theory of life i've ever discovered. its pure genius and amazing. 

[Aakash]

@tedens i can only point to it, i can't tell you in words what it is. but go to my true self post and then try figure it out as a mental image 

[electroBeam]

@Aakash you are right, the map isn't the territory. Mickey mouse isn't real, its just an illusion.

Yet what is real is the understanding of Mickey mouse, the knowingness of what mickey mouse is. 

I'm not saying the map is the territory, I'm saying your understanding of the map is the territory, if you dare contemplate on that facet of reality. 

 

If you wish to keep practicing self inquiry and digging through the map, which will in turn lead you to the territory, then you may, but there is a lot to discover about understanding which is missed by the hindu traditions. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by electroBeam

[Aakash]

@electroBeam  no complaints here, its up to your awareness

your understanding of the map is a guideline to the terratory, it is not the terratory. 

the knowing is the terratory. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Aakash

[Key Elements]

@Leo Gura I have a friend who is equally as interested in spirituality/non-duality as me. He doesn't go around talking about it everyday somewhere. He points out that the behavior is obsessive. I understand that. I doubt he has ever been through that phase in his life.

From time to time, I think of visiting Shinzen Young on a retreat. I want to thank him for doing 'the ten ox herding pics' so well and that he explained it so well on YouTube! It's the main reason why I'm in the forum. It was a major self-discovery for me. Riding the ox backwards and the Cloth Bag Monk made complete sense to me. (And, Leo, thanks for saying something in an enlightenment clip that led me to those clips of his.) However, I had second thoughts about visiting him. I don't want to go empty handed. I rather be prepared to say something useful to him to show that I did the work. I rather show what happened to me, not tell. Maybe gift him a mug of the 10 ox herding pics and my business card of my life purpose with a brief letter to show how I did the work. Then, I tell him that I'm on this retreat to see if I could learn anymore lessons. I'm a long way from this though. I better get to work. I would like to see Thich Naht Hanh face to face too and show him what happened to me. But, what good is the deepest wisdom when it's not being applied to this life properly? 

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura LOL probably

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

Interesting, but, when an enlightenment experience is happening, there is an understanding of it. Its an understanding that there is no inner or outer world. 

understanding does = infinite humor, but it wasn't created by illusion, it was created by god. This is deeply significant, the understanding has God in it. This is also different to nothingness and everythingness. It explains how the world was created, instead of what it is fundamentally. 

Only from the perspective which has a priori distinctions. 

What is non-enlightening-experience?

What is not-God?

What is without-deeply-significant?

What is not-illusion?

What is without-fundamental?

[Shin]

2 hours ago, cetus56 said:

@Shin Now it's 4.

 

[Inliytened1]

@tedens teden check out Leos video called what is perception i think that will help a lot.  As others said we can only point to it with language you can message me and i can help you to try and grasp it further but it is your true self when you strip away your ego..when you become conscious of this you and be being itself you will become eniightened.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Inliytened1