why some people attain enlightenment faster then others?

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

There cannot be said to be past lives -- or for that matter, present ones -- in reality.

The problem with this is, many of the greatest enlightened masters report direct experience of past lives.

How is that explained? As delusion? Seems like a very insufficient explanation. Could there be something they know that we don't?

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem with this is, many of the greatest enlightened masters report direct experience of past lives.

How is that explained? As delusion? Seems like a very insufficient explanation. Could there be something they know that we don't?

Well I'm saying that even to say this life is experienced not true. To say this moment is experienced is not true.

If that is the case, then it couldn't be true that "enlightened masters" say something. That also is a fact that is equally incorrect.

Indeed, the very concept of "enlightened masters" is also wrong, in the end.

A useful concept for seekers, but in the end, out it must go.

The entire conceptual framework within which all of these words are said is based on the subject-object duality, which is wrong. 

I mean, we can talk in that language for a while, but as you see, if that language is pushed to its limits (where did things come from, etc.) it becomes ultimately incoherent.

Edited February 10, 2019 by winterknight

[Leo Gura]

@winterknight That's all fine, you can take that Absolute stance, but there is still the question of relative scientific truths.

Enlightened masters do not say they see unicorns but they do speak of past lives. So clearly there is something they are pointing to. What is that thing?

If I point at a kangroo to someone who has never seen a kangroo, and you say, "Oh, well, it is all an illusion anyways. No need to look." That would be a mistake. Something is being missed.

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@winterknight That's all fine, you can take that Absolute stance, but there is still the question of relative scientific truths.

Enlightened masters do not say they see unicorns but they do speak of past lives. So clearly there is something they are pointing to. What is that thing?

Well if you want to take it from the scientific point of view, that's a totally different thing. But I wouldn't expect to be able to "get to the bottom of the matter" by asking about what is the condition of things when a soul is born. There is no bottom of the matter, and science is never going to be able to penetrate the mystery of consciousness (because scientists are trapped in their own minds).

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If I point at a kangroo to someone who has never seen a kangroo, and you say, "Oh, well, it is all an illusion anyways. No need to look." That would be a mistake. Something is being missed.

Sure, but if one asks: yes, but why are there kangaroos at all? Evolution. Well, why did evolution proceed in this way? Because of the initial conditions of the universe + the laws of the universe. Yes but why were the initial conditions that way? Why are the laws as they are? And even if there were answers to that...

Edited February 10, 2019 by winterknight

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura absolute infinity.  Plain and simple.

At first this answer seems cliche.. like "oh well you can't say anything that you don't have a direct answer for is absolute infinity."

But actually it fucking is! When you become conscious of that in your direct experience you understand.

 More directly though i was always a person who felt "being" from an early age.  Often i would just feel the understanding of something rather than be able to easily describe it in words.

You either just get "isness" or you don't right off the bat and whether you do or not..well since everything is one that is simply infinity at work.  

Since reality is an absolute relativity all that is real is what is YOUR direct experience.  All of this is just concepts.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Shadowraix]

Just a wild idea I am throwing out on the notion of souls: If everything that occurs is remembered. Kind of like an atom remembering every interaction which is ingrained in its being. - you could call it a building of experience. And a 'soul' is a composition of this experience. So the building off of previous lives comes from what makes up the body gaining experience and then ending up as experience to the next body. This would effectively make the universe a huge ever changing brain. But it would explain the building upon of past lives. Your 'soul' could be made up of tons of past humans or none at all!

[Leo Gura]

@Inliytened1 You are conflating Absolute and relative truths. Yes, of course Absolute Infinity is the ultimate answer to everything. But we can also still ask the question, are there aliens on Mars? And the answer might turn out to be Yes!

Likewise there may be a soul of which you are still as yet unawares. No one is saying that the soul is the Absolute Godhead.

[cetus]

What makes you-you and me-me? How did I even get on this mission of discovery?

I notice when I stop the mission I cease to exist. hmm

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

I notice when I stop the mission I cease to exist. hmm

only☝️ Enlightened one and its ?

Edited February 10, 2019 by Jack River

[Key Elements]

@Leo Gura From what you're talking about in this thread, you may want to check out this author and his book.

What I could make of it so far is, those 'enlightened masters' who have achieved nirvana could choose to reincarnate back on earth in whatever time they choose--to teach lessons in all kinds of ways. They could choose to be someone of a big ego or an unaware ego in their lifetime to interact with you just to steer you in the 'right' direction.

[Leo Gura]

@Key Elements Yes, I've heard such stories. I have yet to validate them for myself though. You gotta be careful with New Age beliefs like that.

[Aaron p]

@Peo "This is a question i have wondered for quite a time now. Some people spend 50 years chasing enlightenment and they dont achive it. While some people acchive enlightenment not knowing anything about it, just one day it just hit them out of nowhere. For example Eckhart tolle attain one of the deepest enlightenment. It just happend to him one night. He had no idea what happend to him before he looked it up. He went from stage 1 in the oxherding pictures to picture 5 or 6. Do anyone have a answer to why some people attain enlightenment faster then other people?"

 

- (didn't let me quote you for some reason)

...dawg I think it's a pity I'm not automatically enlightened ffs, tell me about it. But I can tell you more me thing, you need to be adaptive and fucking *intelligent and very clever and flexible when your dealing with your mind......constantly adjusting your techniques listening to the voice of God for guidance. It's like regular workouts, you could achieve more doing 10 reps once with correct form than you would if you did 40 reps with incorrect form. Form is just as important in spirituality and just like in body workouts, the form relaxes, becomes lazy. Someone who will get enlightened is someone who can be creative as fuck na' mean. You've got to think outside the box...and then you've got to fucking transcend the box and realise that the box is your fabrication. I don't wantknow what the word for this would be... cunning? Intuitive?

Sorry for the spelling mistakes fs

Edited February 10, 2019 by Aaron p

[Inliytened1]

You guys are overthinking this to the thousandth degree.  Concept and imagination.  

It just IS.  The question is just imagination and so is the answer.  There is just direct experience.

[Aaron p]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You guys are overthinking this to the thousandth degree.  Concept and imagination.  

It just IS.  The question is just imagination and so is the answer.  There is just direct experience.

 man there's nothing wrong with a little accuracy. Nothing at all...this has sped up my enlightenment process...quick time

[DrewNows]

? (godhead) ✍️ “get back to work. Slaves.” ??

[Key Elements]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Key Elements Yes, I've heard such stories. I have yet to validate them for myself though. You gotta be careful with New Age beliefs like that.

Yes, you're right. Go ahead and validate them for yourself. You don't have to believe anything of anyone. I'm not talking about anything new age. He said something in his book that I could relate to. Otherwise, I wouldn't give it any value and mention it. He is definitely not a new age writer.

[Jamie Universe]

I see attaining enlightenment as known vs. unknown fate.

Like learning math, it seems so simple 1+1=2 right? The enlightenment equivalent may be, a person thinking that way about calculus to a kindergartener, By chance you understand the math problem, someone points it out to you, you listen, sometimes it takes lots of details to understand and do the math problem for yourself, but also if you maybe are a visual learner, or can't learn from the teachers POV and way of explaining, you will try different approaches and eventually it will click.

 

What I mean is - The future is unknown, but probability is almost the proccess of it coming known. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

You guys are overthinking this to the thousandth degree.  Concept and imagination.  

It just IS.  The question is just imagination and so is the answer.  There is just direct experience.

You say that but you probably got one of those lucky souls of a T-Rex who used to meditate all the time

[Anton Rogachevski]

Thank you for the fascinating discussion,

I am pretty satisfied with Genetics as an answer. Just imagine a hereditary line of priests or shamans, a cast of spiritual people if you will. The DNA stores memories, it's scientifically proven.

This also explains the visions of the masters who gained full access to the subconscious mind and withdrew that data from DNA.