Is ego the source of egoless-ness?

[clouffy]

It seems like the only way to become ego-less/ enlightened is to use the "existing ego" to "hack" ourselves into pursuing enlightenment,

just as Leo puts it in his video on "the benefit of enlightenment", 

Leo really has a thing in "luring" us unconscious people into personal development by appealing to our egos - with "enlightenment" we will stop caring about what people think, since we realise the nothing-ness of ourselves/ the vastness of the universe, etc. 

And for eckhart tolle, it seems from what he says, that the reason he became "egoless" was because his ego inflicted too much pain on himself, that he ultimately was able to break away from ego...

 

but doesn't this go in the contrary of what Sadhguru says that "suffering will not seek"? I feel like, that unconsciously I may have the drive to become "egoless" by inflicting pain on myself, since I think I need to suffer like the normal person, and need intense suffering (to the point of suicide) before I "deserve" enlightenment...

But isn't that also the life of "Buddha" as a prince? He saw "suffering" as a need to complete his hero's journey...

And it seems like the catch-22 thing is, how I manage to "get out of depression" in the past/ have a fulfilling day was when there was some unconscious "triggers" that motivated to wake up/ get out of the house...then the depressed mood kind of goes away "naturally"...the counter-intuitive thign is, you can't think of "acceptance" in order to feel acceptance...goddammit

[YaNanNallari]

There is more than the ego going on. Therefore only ego doesn't have to erase itself

On 7.2.2019 at 10:12 AM, clouffy said:

suffering will not seek

one who suffers simultaneously holds onto suffering therefore does not seek

[Salvijus]

Listen carefully from 14min.

He says those who suffer will only seek pleasure nothing more.

Because people think that enlightenment is the end of suffering. That's why they are chasing enlightenment because they don't realize all they actually want is happyness not dissolusion.

The only reason you're thinking about being egoless is because you think after you become egoless you'll be happy. So that's why you think enlightenment is the solution. But all you want is to be happy not dead. It's because you imagine that once you're egoless everything will be perfect in your life. And you're using pain to increase the motivation to get to that egoless state which is fine.  But egoless state is not Mukti, it's not enlightenment, it's not dissolusion. It's just a pleasent, fancy experience. All you want is a pleasent experience.

But when Sadhguru says suffering will not seek. What he means is that someone who's suffering will not think about dissolusion. Mukti or dissolusion means you trying cease to exist. you're trying to end yourself. To end your life. To escape life and death.  To finish all your karma. 

Only a happy person who experienced this life totally can think of dissolusion. Because for him life pleasures doesn't matter anymore, for a happy person being happy is not a big deal. For someone who's deprived of happyness all his life, for him the highest goal is to be happy. But for someone who's in bliss and exstacy everyday, for him the highest goal is to go cease to exist or beyond life and death, or dissolving all his karma and becoming a limitless existence.

You would understand this if you knew what Mukti means. It's much more then a fancy nondual experience.

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Many people who awaken are driven to it by intense suffering and dissatisfaction with everyday life.

Suffering is the greatest teacher. Once you suffer enough, you'll be ready to say: "I give up! I surrender!"

Suffering DOES create seeking. But of course most people don't know about enlightenment at all, so they suffer without knowing the ultimate solution.

Suffering is not needed to complete the hero's journey. It's just that in practice, if you have an easy life, you will get hypnotized by the comfort and probably never undertake the hero's journey to begin with, nor will you persevere past all the challenging obstacles.

I've never suffered more than during meditation retreats. You have to be willing to go through some self-inflicted conscious suffering in order to awaken. Awakening is not the path of least resistance. It is like training for the Olympics. It comes with sacrifice. You must surrender your easy, unconscious life.

There is a higher drive within the ego which seeks God. It's like a faint whisper amidst a sea of egoic noise. That faint whisper is what ultimately leads to awakening if you listen to it and act on it.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Suffering DOES create seeking. 

It's just that suffering doesnt create the desire to dissolve. Suffering seeks pleasure only. And suffering thinks after enlightenmemt life will be amazing. 

Would you seek enlightenment if somebody told you that you will gain nothing at all, you will not become happy at all. All your suffering will not go away. If somebody told you the path to enlightenment is just a nonstop suffering untill you dissolve, would you go for it,?No, isn't it.? Suffering only thinks about how to escape suffering and reach happyness but not dissolusion. 

Only happyness thinks about dissolving.

I understand why people say suffering DOES seek. It's just a misconception about what is being refered to when sadhguru says enlightenment or Mukti. He means cease to exist or dissolving, not nonduality experience.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

@Salvijus Don't be so dogmatic. Suffering leads to legit spiritual purification, growth, and even awakening.

Suffering doesn't only seek pleasure.

And ceasing to exist and nonduality "experience" are the same thing.

Do not take things that spiritual teachers say as absolutes. They are partial points of view. Sadhguru is never telling you the whole truth.

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And ceasing to exist and nonduality "experience" are the same thing.

 

As I said. Here lies all the missunderstanding. That Mukti doesnt mean samadhi. If you understand this you will see that what sadhguru said is very logical and makes sense. It's the way it is and there's no other way. It's just the way life works.

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Salvijus Don't be so dogmatic. Suffering leads to legit spiritual purification, growth, and even awakening.

 

It leads to happyness. Yes. To amazing life, to a state of peace and joy and high states of consciousness. Again this proves that suffering is seeking happyness, is seeking enlightenment because he thinks that's the answer to his suffering but he's not seeking dissolusion. Dissolusion is not a high state of consciousness.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Salvijus

[Dodo]

On 08/02/2019 at 8:54 AM, YaNanNallari said:

There is more than the ego going on. Therefore only ego doesn't have to erase itself

one who suffers simultaneously holds onto suffering therefore does not seek

Seeking is suffering,  not seeking is enlightenment 

[clouffy]

@Leo Gura How do you know that suffering is not a part of the hero's journey...when slaying the dragon is a huge part? and what about the indian prince suffering a whole lot before he became the buddha?

if that's the case then, oh damn, these self-inflicted sufferings have all been in vain!

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Suffering is not needed to complete the hero's journey. It's just that in practice, if you have an easy life, you will get hypnotized by the comfort and probably never undertake the hero's journey to begin with, nor will you persevere past all the challenging obstacles.

1

 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, clouffy said:

@Leo Gura How do you know that suffering is not a part of the hero's journey...when slaying the dragon is a huge part? and what about the indian prince suffering a whole lot before he became the buddha?

The hero goes through lots of suffering of course. My point is, the hero isn't undertaking his journey in order to suffer. Suffering isn't his motive.

The Buddha didn't seek suffering, he sought the Holy Grail (an escape from the inevitability of death). Suffering was just a by-product of seeking the Holy Grail.

Generally speaking it's good to have positive motivation for whatever you are doing, not negative one. Seeking rather than avoiding.

[Truth Addict]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Many people who awaken are driven to it by intense suffering and dissatisfaction with everyday life.

Suffering is the greatest teacher. Once you suffer enough, you'll be ready to say: "I give up! I surrender!"

Suffering DOES create seeking. But of course most people don't know about enlightenment at all, so they suffer without knowing the ultimate solution.

Suffering is not needed to complete the hero's journey. It's just that in practice, if you have an easy life, you will get hypnotized by the comfort and probably never undertake the hero's journey to begin with, nor will you persevere past all the challenging obstacles.

I've never suffered more than during meditation retreats. You have to be willing to go through some self-inflicted conscious suffering in order to awaken. Awakening is not the path of least resistance. It is like training for the Olympics. It comes with sacrifice. You must surrender your easy, unconscious life.

There is a higher drive within the ego which seeks God. It's like a faint whisper amidst a sea of egoic noise. That faint whisper is what ultimately leads to awakening if you listen to it and act on it.

???