*I need a legit answer peeps. Is it true that knowledge (as a whole) is one big trap?

[Aaron p]

As usual please make your answer understandable...and pleeease no BS thanks.

Is it true that ANY knowledge is bullshit? I.e. anything that is not experienced directly by me? I'm asking this...rather hopefully. It feels so..strange doing these practices while having no concern for knowledge whatsoever (obviously other than helpful technical advise concerning spiritual practices) is this correct? Is it true that *literally* the only thing that matters, in this work, are the practises (with correct method)? Please be specific with your answers and clear

Edited February 5, 2019 by Aaron p

[outlandish]

No!

The trap is thinking that knowledge is the be all end all, and that there's nothing beyond logical understanding and so on. Knowledge is important, but going beyond knowledge, differentiation, reasoning is also important.

It's not one or the other, it's both.

edit: put in another way: each stage of spiral dynamics builds on the last, it doesn't discard it's foundation. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by outlandish

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Aaron p said:

Is it true that ANY knowledge is bullshit? 

I know what red and green lights mean at intersections while I'm driving. . . . I know I shouldn't drink hydrochloric acid while I'm working in the lab. . . 

Knowledge can come in handy at times. I'd say it becomes a problem when there is attachment and identification to knowledge.

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Aaron p said:

As usual please make your answer understandable...and pleeease no BS thanks.

Is it true that ANY knowledge is bullshit? I.e. anything that is not experienced directly by me? I'm asking this...rather hopefully. It feels so..strange doing these practices while having no concern for knowledge whatsoever (obviously other than helpful technical advise concerning spiritual practices) is this correct? Is it true that *literally* the only thing that matters, in this work, are the practises (with correct method)? Please be specific with your answers and clear

Be aware of a priori disqualifications.  It’s a somewhat common mechanism to make a statement nullifying the very thing the fore-coming question will be asking about. It amounts to maintanence of one’s idea one is separate. Saying “please make your answer understandable...no bs”, and then asking if all knowledge is a trap, is like saying “I know I’m not just this body but....how come it totally seems like it?”, or, “I know better than to objectify females...but man, there is this one hottie that I just can’t stop thinking about”. 

If you say “I know X...” and then are asking about X, just notice you have a question about X, and so you actually don’t know X. I’d suggest looking at not knowing as a relieving & favorite state of consciousness, an invitation of sorts in which knowing actuality has somewhere to arrive. 

 

So, yes, from the perspective you’re asking from...relative to “in this work”....(the knowing of, or, actuality of, being) all thinking / all knowledge is a trap. It is all bullshit, if it is being held up to the question - “is it truth of what I am?”, “can it further my self inquiry?”,  “is it truth of knowing being?” “WIll it help the unification?”   No, it is not truth, it is distraction which introduces a delusion (a specific knowledge - like a factoid that is known logically by memory) to be identified with via a priori slight of mind. 

The means of maintaining the confusion, or, the state-of-question,  is the misunderstanding itself, of what understanding is. In surrendering the inquiry of knowledge, then there is the state-of-answer, and the answer is found in knowing being rather than knowing knowledge. Not only is an attempt to apply knowledge to being a trap, but inquiring about knowledge is a knowledge trap in itself. 

 

Youtube something you know about, have heard of, but don’t understand how it works nor how to do it. Something simple....maybe “how to replace the flame sensor on a furnace”.  Then watch the video.     Look at the components of the experience.  There is the knowing of ignorance, which allows for the search for the information (knowledge), but...where is the understanding? Where, specifically, did it happen? What is, understanding.....is it a proccess that took place? What is it, which understands? What knows it there was ignorance, and then knows there is understanding? Am I aware of an understanding, as in, a partial piece or thing which can be specifically, directly pointed to as the understanding?  Self inquire the knower, the understanding. Perhaps it is the connector, which is currently unnoticed. 

But what if your furnace goes out in the middle of a cold winter night “Naaahhm?! Won’t seem like some bullshit then will it “Naaahhm”!!?  

(Aaron P & Nahm are relativity, and Aaron P wants to see if this “relativity” is also absolute, if it’s all really “being”, if Aaron P is this “being”. Knowledge, in terms of usefulness for that task, is perhaps the greatest of all identity traps).

There is no such thing as knowledge of the self, so all knowledge is attention on some thing which is “other than the self”. So relative to your inquiry of the absolute yes all knowledge is delusion / aka...bullsheet. Infinity doesn’t have a need or use for questions and answers, so there is inherently no actuality of finite knowledge(s). 

And it’s of course all finite knowledge too, but this answer is intended to be relative to the question.

———

This post  / words / concepts implied and referred to...abstraction, the thoughts it’s triggers (or doesn’t)....knowledge. The screen, the device, the air... actual being...so it “eats itself”.

[abrakamowse]

@Nahm Great post as always!

:-)

[Highest]

Yes, it's indeed a big trap. Pure knowledge is knowing that I know absolutely nothing, that all true knowledge lies with God alone. All I know and can know is what I am: I am God and I am All, I Alone Exists. There is only God. This is ''known'' more than knowing, this is something I and all of reality is.

[WelcometoReality]

@Aaron p In the spiritual realm it's good to see knowledge as pointers that you have to verify within your own experience. 

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I know I shouldn't drink hydrochloric acid while I'm working in the lab. . . 

And this kind of everyday knowledge that you don't want to verify yourself.

[bejapuskas]

@WelcometoReality  Is it bullshit to know, that you shouldn't kill someone?

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

And this kind of everyday knowledge that you don't want to verify yourself.

Correct. There are some appearances humans label as "knowledge" that my mind-body accepts and has no interest in verifying for myself. For example, my mind-body has no desire to drink HCL to verify it will damage the body's mouth, esophagus and G.I. tract. There are other appearances labeled as knowledge that my mind-body does not accept one way or the other and has no interest in verifying myself. For example, my colleague said there were donuts in the staff office this morning before I arrived at work. And there is still other knowledge that my mind-body desires to verify through direct experience. For example, that yin yoga can release myofascial tension within the body. 

[Nahm]

“Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather just take the butcher's word for it.”

[abrakamowse]

Knowledge is good for doing our daily stuff, work, etc... but not to know who we really are. Not to grasp what reality is.

Because @Nahm explained it better than me here  --->

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

There is no such thing as knowledge of the self, so all knowledge is attention on some thing which is “other than the self”. So relative to your inquiry of the absolute yes all knowledge is delusion / aka...bullsheet. Infinity doesn’t have a need or use for questions and answers, so there is inherently no actuality of finite knowledge(s). 

 

[Aaron p]

17 minutes ago, Nahm said:

“Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather just take the butcher's word for it.”

Lol

[Aaron p]

It's strange...I'm discovering that I need to somehow connect myself to reality...but all of my self enquiry feels like I'm being separated from reality. 

Something is connecting and something is disconnecting at the same time. It feels like I have had an insight about it but it's unclear as to *what* is connecting and how it's connecting. I think a few of the answers have helped me. Possibly that, in embracing reality (rather than trying to distance myself from it), I have discovered that, to transcent reality, you need to first embrace it. This was forgin to me before today

..waw

[WelcometoReality]

10 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@WelcometoReality  Is it bullshit to know, that you shouldn't kill someone?

This is good everyday knowledge to have however this question can be worth contemplating. If it is a clear yes or no answer then maybe it's worth exploring more. 

[Jack River]

Knowledge and the subject/object relationship all work together and are intertwined. Its a good idea to have insight into how knowledge fits into that relationship and how it will be beneficial and not so much in certain domains. 

Understanding the nature of thought(subject/object phenomenon) helped me in seeing where knowledge has its place and where it absolutely does not.

Then we also see how this subject/object phenomenon will act as a barrier to seeing what I am. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Jack River

[purerogue]

22 hours ago, Aaron p said:

As usual please make your answer understandable...and pleeease no BS thanks.

Is it true that ANY knowledge is bullshit? I.e. anything that is not experienced directly by me? I'm asking this...rather hopefully. It feels so..strange doing these practices while having no concern for knowledge whatsoever (obviously other than helpful technical advise concerning spiritual practices) is this correct? Is it true that *literally* the only thing that matters, in this work, are the practises (with correct method)? Please be specific with your answers and clear

I guess if we are talking about being stuck in knowledge, then you need knowledge to get out, but if we are talking about pure being, it does not hold knowledge, that is at least what I think.

But it is rather hard to explain, first you have to understand where understanding and not understanding comes from , prior before there being one. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by purerogue

[Shin]

It's a trap if you think knowledge/concepts are the territory.
Which is a tendency that the mind have if you still identify to it.

For years or decades some people will debate non-duality, as if it fucking matters.
Confusing the map for the territory -> arguing which concepts is the most refined/true.

Concepts are useful in spirituality, as a general guideline and roadmap, to know what you could encounter, to know you're not going crazy.
It's also useful in the beginning to understand why it's important to do it.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Shin

[Jack River]

We tend to look to a specific form of knowledge to get unstuck instead of understanding the whole nature of knowledge and it’s relationship to this supposed self who is stuck. 

Understanding (to stand under) is not a verbal/intellectual understanding. The insight is whole in that with the understanding is a direct action that sees how knowledge is beneficial in some areas and not others.

Usually we accumulate knowledge and try to apply that knowledge in a specific direction. We try and integrate that knowledge into our understanding and use it to act.

 But with insight into the whole of knowledge (UNDERSTANDING) the insight itself IS its own action. There is a huge difference in these two understandings. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Jack River

[Jack River]

In this INSIGHT we can see the subject/object phenomenon as one unitary movement of thought/time and negate such movement where it has no place. A psychological freedom. Compete mutation of psyche. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Jack River

[AlwaysBeNice]

On 2/5/2019 at 11:12 PM, Aaron p said:

It's strange...I'm discovering that I need to somehow connect myself to reality...but all of my self enquiry feels like I'm being separated from reality. 

Something is connecting and something is disconnecting at the same time. It feels like I have had an insight about it but it's unclear as to *what* is connecting and how it's connecting. I think a few of the answers have helped me. Possibly that, in embracing reality (rather than trying to distance myself from it), I have discovered that, to transcent reality, you need to first embrace it. This was forgin to me before today

..waw

How do you do self-enquiry? Self-enquiry is not really something you can do,

it's a mindset of wanting to find out who you are, and stopping thinking, being still, being open.

As Ramana said:

'Feeling is the main thing, not reason'

'Really Self-enquiry starts when you are off the mental waves, the thought waves'

And

' The degree of the absence of thoughts is the measure of your progress towards Self-realization.

But Self-realization itself does not admit of progress, it is ever the same.'

- 

Yeah spiritual knowledge is only there to inspire and point, and must be discarded for direct experience in order to progress.

Relative knowledge is another matter, but spiritual experience will begin to work in that area as well as you learn to integrate and learn through experience