The paradoxical 'action non-action' of surrender

[winterknight]

Just a short audio clip I made on this point.

[DecemberFlower]

Thank you for the clip So the point is that surrender can never be done by effort?  Even effort to drop the effort has to be dropped

[winterknight]

18 minutes ago, DecemberFlower said:

Thank you for the clip So the point is that surrender can never be done by effort?  Even effort to drop the effort has to be dropped

Not quite. The point is that effortful surrender melts into an effortless “waking up” where it is clear that there was no such thing as surrender or effort.

You must put in the effort to surrender — that effort will then be dropped “for you.”

[DecemberFlower]

10 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Not quite. The point is that effortful surrender melts into an effortless “waking up” where it is clear that there was no such thing as surrender or effort.

 

Great explanation

 

[DrewNows]

Complete no effort surrender would be through extreme suffering? With this it wouldn’t last unless grasped(understood)...right? 

[winterknight]

48 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Complete no effort surrender would be through extreme suffering? With this it wouldn’t last unless grasped(understood)...right? 

Extreme suffering may or may not cause surrender. And if it did, it may or may not 'last.' Totally depends. No generalization can be made.

Effortless surrender is not really an event, anyhow -- it is simply recognizing what always is.

[DrewNows]

14 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Effortless surrender is not really an event, anyhow -- it is simply recognizing what always is.

Of course! ?

extreme suffering could also lead to physical death obviously