A HUGE problem with Spiral Dynamics: Stage Orange

[The Don]

Hello.

The biggest problem with Spiral Dynamics: Stage Orange, is the fact that people aren't reproducing themselves.

We are experiencing right now an absolute population implosion. (take a look, a short video with proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5Z14X-moM)

How do you guys see this problem and how can we solve it?

Almost all my friends don't have a family. Neither kids and of course, they don't plan to have them.

P.S: please don't give me that bullshit about everything being just an illusion or why do you care. In this context, these kind of answers are not relevant.

[Barna]

Are you afraid that nobody will pay for your pension?

[Binary Encoded Sunset]

I might just be being partially ignorant & flippant about this because I'm responding after a rare night out, a bit drunk without doing any research, but based on my supposedly existing knowledge... what's the issue?

1, What makes this specifically an orange problem? Commy China's authoritarian state seems more of a blend of blue, an ever developing taste of orange & a little too much red for comfort (atleast it would seem so from the not so distant past last I checked). Anyone from any SD tier can choose not to have children for a variety of reasons.

2, In a nation that may have (or have had) problems with birth rates & overpopulation (I don't know the present statistics but that's the gist I've developed), why would there be a problem with a smaller, potentially more focussed generation? Personally, I wouldn't encourage there to be less asians in the world because I'm prone to a touch of yellow fever & appreciative of many aspects of various asian cultures, but in a more objective view... less people, more to go around, less noise & clutter, less consumption thus less pollution (bad for the economy, good for the environment... not very orange... more green), &... & wait for it...

3, With less of a population problem, & the recognition of a more pressing need to amplify the numbers of the asian persuasion, they could lift the one kiddo per household rule, freeing up the pro choice & making it easier for loving families to adorn their homes with more farting, burping, bundles of joy...  Hooorayyy!!!! No? *(looks around awkwardly)* if anything, that would lead to a granting of more legal freedoms.

4, I realise it's not just China etc that Elon was mentioning... Europe too to some extent... potentially. I'm in the UK & have you seen the rate that our most typical demographics spit out their progenies & plonk 'em onto a metaphorical lifestyle conveyor belt toward TV dinners & the road to pre-teen binge drinking? It's everywhere. I wouldn't advocate depopulation or a strict authoritarian state at all but dayuumnn son... the conditions are potentially scary.

Someone please bring on AQAL's upper right quadrant & pick this apart with some factos.

P.S. What a beautiful signature you have  @Barna

[Michael569]

I'd actually say that the world is massively overpopulating, your western Orange sample does not depict a global picture. Look at blue Eastern communities and families of 15 children in India, UAE, Soudi Arabia and you'll quickly realise that we have the opposite problem. 

A fundamental aspect of Orange is desire to have career, power, growth and money..things that are hard to get when you have to tend to a child..so most ladies who are working in corporate and following the Orange trend will naturally stop desiring offspring, it can't be any other way..same as the Arabic families "HAVE TO have 10 children because that's what the culture dictates. 

[thesmileyone]

1 hour ago, Binary Encoded Sunset said:

I might just be being partially ignorant & flippant about this because I'm responding after a rare night out, a bit drunk without doing any research, but based on my supposedly existing knowledge... what's the issue?

1, What makes this specifically an orange problem? Commy China's authoritarian state seems more of a blend of blue, an ever developing taste of orange & a little too much red for comfort (atleast it would seem so from the not so distant past last I checked). Anyone from any SD tier can choose not to have children for a variety of reasons.

2, In a nation that may have (or have had) problems with birth rates & overpopulation (I don't know the present statistics but that's the gist I've developed), why would there be a problem with a smaller, potentially more focussed generation? Personally, I wouldn't encourage there to be less asians in the world because I'm prone to a touch of yellow fever & appreciative of many aspects of various asian cultures, but in a more objective view... less people, more to go around, less noise & clutter, less consumption thus less pollution (bad for the economy, good for the environment... not very orange... more green), &... & wait for it...

3, With less of a population problem, & the recognition of a more pressing need to amplify the numbers of the asian persuasion, they could lift the one kiddo per household rule, freeing up the pro choice & making it easier for loving families to adorn their homes with more farting, burping, bundles of joy...  Hooorayyy!!!! No? *(looks around awkwardly)* if anything, that would lead to a granting of more legal freedoms.

4, I realise it's not just China etc that Elon was mentioning... Europe too to some extent... potentially. I'm in the UK & have you seen the rate that our most typical demographics spit out their progenies & plonk 'em onto a metaphorical lifestyle conveyor belt toward TV dinners & the road to pre-teen binge drinking? It's everywhere. I wouldn't advocate depopulation or a strict authoritarian state at all but dayuumnn son... the conditions are potentially scary.

Someone please bring on AQAL's upper right quadrant & pick this apart with some factos.

P.S. What a beautiful signature you have  @Barna

I agree about the UK. Furthermore the people who have kids because 16 years of benefits income tend to have the most, I live in a rich part of a pretty poor area and it is not uncommon to see 8-12 children in one, Single mother, family. Not brought up by a caring parent. It's sad.

Whereas the people who would be good parents don't have any children because they don't have time, too busy working, or cannot afford to bring up children responsibly.

Of course this is all fine and dandy until you realize those 12 kids grow up to have 12 kids each themselves and you end up with a majority population of low colour on your spiral chart.

[Rilles]

Were fucking like wabbits, worry about raising the kids instead of making more, thats the real issue.

[TheAvatarState]

7 hours ago, The Don said:

We are experiencing right now an absolute population implosion.

That's not the problem, that's the solution. This is the beginning of Green, and not really a global perspective, just first world.  The thing with Orange is that only the rich people start having less kids, while poor people continue to have a bunch of kids. That's baked into the system, and it has led to a greater gap between rich and poor. The orange system is unstable and leads to its own downfall. 

The problem with Orange is that it thinks upward growth can run rampant until the end of time. The problem with lower stages in a modern context is that it doesn't see the ecological impact of its own cultural policies, and having economic and cultural norms that encourage having a lot of kids is REALLY bad. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by TheAvatarState

[Mu_]

7 hours ago, The Don said:

Hello.

The biggest problem with Spiral Dynamics: Stage Orange, is the fact that people aren't reproducing themselves.

We are experiencing right now an absolute population implosion. (take a look, a short video with proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5Z14X-moM)

How do you guys see this problem and how can we solve it?

Almost all my friends don't have a family. Neither kids and of course, they don't plan to have them.

P.S: please don't give me that bullshit about everything being just an illusion or why do you care. In this context, these kind of answers are not relevant.

Why is this a problem?  Perhaps the planet needs less people.  We aren't the center of it or the universe.  If what you say is true, then this makes me very happy.   I like people, I like animals, I like life, and honestly less humans is probably better for them all at this point in time.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mu_

[The Don]

Your answers are a little bit spicy.

I wasn't trying to be rude folks.

We have airlines, trains, labs, technology and a medical system; all of those has to be taken care of.

Who will run them? Don't you realize how bad this is?

We need scientists and engineers.

Western Civilization will go extinct if we don't reproduce ourselves.

[Binary Encoded Sunset]

"During the 20th century alone, the population in the world has grown from 1.65 billion to 6 billion."

If the statistics from the following link are remotely accurate, need I say more? http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Even in the welcome event that the rapid & exponential growth of the human race slows down a little (but not too much of course), the issue you're raising seems less with the population & more to do with the quality of the population & their ability to adequately fill the positions you appear concerned will become vacant. I think you'll find there are many people who are struggling to find suitable jobs, some of whom are over qualified & that doesn't seem likely to change any time soon.

That & the huge rate at which the lower stages are repreducing leaves us questioning the future beneficial conditions of a concerning percentage of certain western culltures. A decrease in poulation growth may give us more time to focus on the development of the existing population & even if it were to decrease by HALF (which I highly doubt because we're horny & love cute things), we'd still have a bigger world population than we did 40 years ago.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it.

 

[thesmileyone]

53 minutes ago, The Don said:

Your answers are a little bit spicy.

I wasn't trying to be rude folks.

We have airlines, trains, labs, technology and a medical system; all of those has to be taken care of.

Who will run them? Don't you realize how bad this is?

We need scientists and engineers.

Western Civilization will go extinct if we don't reproduce ourselves.

The thing is we don't need any of them. Caveman had none of them and survived.

It is far more likely that the next World War will involve EMP's that will disable all of the above anyway than it is that humans will go extinct. Or it won't occur and robots and AI will take over.

Maybe you should look into reading and practicing stoicism. It will help you with your worries and fears.

[The Don]

On 2/4/2019 at 10:52 PM, thesmileyone said:

The thing is we don't need any of them. Caveman had none of them and survived.

It is far more likely that the next World War will involve EMP's that will disable all of the above anyway than it is that humans will go extinct. Or it won't occur and robots and AI will take over.

Maybe you should look into reading and practicing stoicism. It will help you with your worries and fears.

Thanks. I already did that.

Marcus Aurelius once said that our behavior has to be for the social good.

That means having a family and children. Without them, the Western World is going to die; I mean it is happening right now.

China and India will survive. They will lead the world.

[Forestluv]

What does not wanting children have to do with stage Orange? Some Orange-centered people want children, others don't.

[Shadowraix]

On 2/4/2019 at 1:46 AM, The Don said:

Almost all my friends don't have a family. Neither kids and of course, they don't plan to have them.

How old are your friends? Its not unheard of to have a family later in life when you've gained more experience.

I don't want kids and I think a lot of people my age at 20 usually can get behind my reasoning even if they want them.

1. I'm not financially stable enough to take care of a kid and make sure they get what they need to grow and flourish.

2. I am not satisfied with raising a child in the current state of the world because I am unsatisfied with its state. 

3. Having a child will be a big sacrifice on myself, I only want kids when or if I am ready to make that sacrifice.

4. Overpopulation concerns. You can say who is gonna take all these jobs but reducing population reduces the amount of jobs available on top of those looking for them, so it'll probably equalize out.

5. I barely know what I am doing now. I feel nowhere near capable of being able to raise a child to figure everything out and live on their own.

 

[Shin]

7,7 billions is enough  

Edited February 13, 2019 by Shin