Countries by Spiral Dynamics Level of Development?

[nexusoflife]

Do we have any maps or way of categorizing countries based upon their overall level of values development based on the model of Spiral Dynamics? I was just thinking about having clarification on this. For a few examples Places such as The United States, Canada, The United Kingdom, Germany, Japan, South Korea,  etc all seem to be at a primarily stage orange level of development. However places such as India, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, etc appear to be at a blue stage of Spiral Dynamics values development. I was wondering what stages the various countries of the world are at. Perhaps we could create a thread of where we think certain countries and regions would fall on the spiral. Red countries, blue countries, orange countries , green countries, etc.

[Leo Gura]

I mentioned many countries and places in the example lists in my Spiral Dynamics mini-series.

1st world countries are mostly Orange and above.

3rd world countries are mostly Blue and below.

Northern Europe is Greenest.

A lot of the Middle East and Africa is Purple/Red.

A lot of South America is Red/Blue.

Major cities are usually 1 or 2 levels higher than nearby rural areas.

[Cameron]

@nexusoflife There is also this chart which Leo shared on his blog around the time of the Spiral Dynamics Mini-Series.

Just remember that the Spiral is Dynamic. So a chart like this has a date that it was estimated from. It's not 100% accurate and won't necessarily stay like that. But still very helpful

Edited February 4, 2019 by Cameron

[Ingit]

What is Spiral dynamics.... ! I have seen people often talking about it here..

[AlphaAbundance]

@Ingit 

• Open a new tab
• copy than paste this ---> "spiral dynamics" 
• and than tap enter

[apparentlynoself]

@Bojan i think that Yugoslavia was at stage blue of the spiral.

[inFlow]

@Bojan It's a model not a territory. I studied the model a lot for myself. And in the end you just gotta let go of it, cause reality is so wast that the model itself limits you.  Don't think you just can slap a label on a country or a person and say that it's either blue, orange or green. It's just a mix of everything.

[Synchronicity]

On 2/4/2019 at 3:54 AM, Cameron said:

 

I don’t really like that liberals are ranked a whole stage higher than conservatives. In my opinion, conservatives have just as many good points as liberals. Similarly, just like conservatives, liberals have a lot of negative traits. For example: many claim victim status and blame the world for their problems instead of focusing on inner work; many try to control other people’s lives (ban people from owning guns); many try to force others to see them how they want to be seen (they’ll get angry over binary gender perspective which is just another perspective) etc. 

So I think they’re both equal. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Synchronicity

[Leo Gura]

@Synchronicity But they are not equal. The conservative value set is lower consciousness. A conservative's sense of self is denser and fear greater. A conservative's cognitive and moral development are objectively lower and less truthful.

Be careful with false equivalencies and splitting all issues down the middle.

The mid point between slavery and anti-slavery is still backwards.

None of this makes liberals immune to ignorance or self-deception. But relative to conservatives they are 1 stage higher.

Note: remember, these are relative evaluations, not absolute. Spiral Dynamics is a relative model. But politics is a relative matter so it fits.

[zeroISinfinity]

On 13.2.2019. at 7:43 PM, Bojan said:

Do you know at which stages are Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro?

I heard from people around me that Yugoslavia was a great country. They are describing it like it was stage green. 

I can't study this right now.

We are middle east with facade of "orange" lol. Entire Balkan region. 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Synchronicity]

@Leo Gura Objectively lower? 

Whichever one is lower (or even whether they’re both equal, as I’ve said) depends on what values and cognitive skills you consider greater.

I have my reasons for why Liberal cognitive and moral value is no higher than Conservatives and I gave them.

You said your reasons for placing Conservatives lower is because they have greater sense of self. Well, Liberals have just as great a sense of self (in my opinion) as more of them claim victim status and want laws to conform to their social identities. I see no less dense a sense of self there than Conservatives. 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Synchronicity

[Forestluv]

@Synchronicity Be mindful of the distinction between principles and personalities. 

Consider the collective conscious level/values of red, blue, orange and green. Which has the most expansive level of collective conscious? What is an example of "community" to a conservative and an example of "community" to a liberal? Which is more expansive? An average liberal has a more expansive sense and embodiment of community at the collective conscious level than a conservative.

Similarly, consider modes of thinking. Being in green, liberals can operate in logical and a basic level of relative. Being in Blue and Orange, conservatives are contracted within binary and logical thinking - they lack understanding and embodiment of relativistic thinking - such as cultural relativism. Liberals are much better able to see other POV's and empathize with others because of this expanded consciousness.

Also consider why a scientist is ranked nearly a full level lower than a hippy. . . The degree of conscious expansion is not just about intellectual ideas. . . 

 

[Synchronicity]

@Serotoninluv Yes I agree that Liberals understand Relativism more than Conservatives.

However, there’s stuff that Conservatives are more adept at. 

Most conservatives, at least the ones I’ve seen) are generally more well-mannered. That is, they present their points in a more calm and logical tone

Secondly, I’ve seen more conservatives willing to be friends with Liberals than vice versa. That is, they’re more ready to agree to disagree (this is a form of understanding relativity, albeit not as expansive as the Liberals have it)

Third example, when Liberals don’t like something (like guns) they tend to want to outlaw them and not let anybody own one. Now I don’t want a gun, but I certainly wouldn’t tell my neighbor what they could or couldn’t own...

That’s very selfish and contracted

But again, there’s a lot of strong points to the Left. However, you seem unaware of many of the strong points of the Right.

I see no larger an amount of strong points on the Left than I do on the right (There’s more than the 3 examples I listed)

If you’re trying to convince me to favor the Left over the Right, well then... I’m sorry. Not everyone needs your perspective and you certainly don’t need to agree with mine

Edited July 18, 2019 by Synchronicity

[robdl]

13 minutes ago, Synchronicity said:

@Serotoninluv Yes I agree that Liberals understand Relativism more than Conservatives.

However, there’s stuff that Conservatives are more adept at. 

Most conservatives, at least the ones I’ve seen) are generally more well-mannered. That is, they present their points in a more calm and logical tone

Secondly, I’ve seen more conservatives willing to be friends with Liberals than vice versa. That is, they’re more ready to agree to disagree (this is a form of understanding relativity, albeit not as expansive as the Liberals have it)

Third example, when Liberals don’t like something (like guns) they tend to want to outlaw them and not let anybody own one. Now I don’t want a gun, but I certainly wouldn’t tell my neighbor what they could or couldn’t own...

That’s very selfish and contracted

But again, there’s a lot of strong points to the Left. However, you seem unaware of many of the strong points of the Right.

If you’re trying to convince me to favor the Left over the Right, well then... I’m sorry. Not everyone needs your perspective and you certainly don’t need to agree with mine

Will a person who identifies as liberal ever concede that liberals and conservatives are on equal footing on the spiral dynamic scale? Of course not.  Their very self-image is at stake here (which is based on favourable comparison to conservatives).

Edited July 18, 2019 by robdl

[Forestluv]

Just now, Synchronicity said:

@Serotoninluv

Most conservatives, at least the ones I’ve seen) are generally more well-mannered. That is, they present their points in a more calm and logical tone

That is generally considered Blue and Orange level values on the SD scale. Noticed how you wrote a "logical" tone. Logic is relatively low on the SD scale (Orange). Green can utilize logic and basic relativism. That is one reason there arguments may seem less logical. Orange uses binary and logical modes, while Green uses binary, logical and relative modes. 

1 minute ago, Synchronicity said:

@Serotoninluv

Secondly, I’ve seen more conservatives willing to be friends with Liberals than vice versa. That is, they’re more ready to agree to disagree (this is a form of understanding relativity, albeit not as expansive as the Liberals have it)

My experience is that most conservatives are willing to agree to disagree because they sense they have an inferior position. When I was in centered in Green I had conversations with conservatives they often backed down when they realized they were in a contracted position. For conservatives, "agreeing to disagree" is often going for a draw in a contracted position. They best they can do is try to equate their contracted position to a higher level expansive position.

7 minutes ago, Synchronicity said:

@Serotoninluv

Third example, when Liberals don’t like something (like guns) they tend to want to outlaw them and not let anybody own one. Now I don’t want a gun, but I certainly wouldn’t tell my neighbor what they could or couldn’t own...

That’s very selfish and contracted

No it's not. This expression arises because Liberals have a more expanded sense of community (collective conscious) than conservatives. 

9 minutes ago, Synchronicity said:

If you’re trying to convince me to favor the Left over the Right, well then... I’m sorry. Not everyone needs your perspective and you certainly don’t need to agree with mine

The discussion is why conservatives and ranked lower on the SD scale. It has nothing to do with personal opinions. It's based on criteria of SD.

And SD is not Absolute. It is a relative scale.

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, robdl said:

Will a person who identifies as liberal ever concede that liberals and conservatives are on equal footing on the spiral dynamic scale? Of course not.  Their very self-image is at stake here (which is based on favourable comparison to conservatives).

It's not about identity. It's based on the criteria of the SD scale: Liberals are a conscious level higher. Identity has nothing to do with it.

An olympic marathon runner is at a higher level than an amateur marathon runner. Their personal identities is irrelevant. The judging criteria is not based on personal identity.

[robdl]

It gets tricky because a liberal might feel like life will be better/more beneficial for them in a more egalitarian society.

Conservatives may feel like life will be better/more beneficial for them in a society that stresses individual responsibility. 

So on the surface, one is more community-minded than the other, but the underlying impulse/self-interest is the same.

It's a lot more subtle and nuanced when you go deeper into it.

Edited July 18, 2019 by robdl

[robdl]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It's not about identity. It's based on the criteria of the SD scale: Liberals are a conscious level higher. Identity has nothing to do with it.

An olympic marathon runner is at a higher level than an amateur marathon runner. Their personal identities is irrelevant. The judging criteria is not based on personal identity.

The criteria of the SD scale was put together by human thought --- thought that could be inherently biased/politically identified, and so on. Right?

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, robdl said:

It gets tricky because a liberal might feel like life will be better/more beneficial for them in a more egalitarian society.

Conservatives may feel like life will be better/more beneficial for them in a society that stresses individual responsibility. 

So on the surface, one is more community-minded than the other, but the underlying impulse/self-interest is the same.

Green is still Tier 1, they have not gone trans-personal yet. 

If a person wanted an egalitarian society for mainly self-interest, that is Orange - not Green. An example would be someone joining a diversity committee and work because it would make them look good and help them get a promotion. The underlying individualistic motivation is Orange, not Green.

Green values egalitarianism due to empathy and a sense of collective. That is Green. If you take that away, it is no longer Green.   

[Synchronicity]

@Serotoninluv You say that the SD scale is relative (which I agree with) but then you compare the judging criteria to two marathon runners...

This makes it sound like you’re trying to say one is objectively lower-conscious than the other though...