Some common myths about enlightenment

[Enlightenment]

@Preetom In 2006 Jeffery Martin traveled across the globe and studied these people, found there is a continuum and put them in "locations". Enlightenment is a continuum starting from a reduction in self-referential thoughts and change in the sense of self, in my case, it expanded beyond my head, then it goes through different changes like being one with visual field, sounds you hear until all sense of agency and self-referential thoughts go away. 

Quote

Another major transition occurred at Location 4, which includes both the transitional location and those beyond it where the experience it ushers in continues to deepen. All remaining vestiges of self-related thoughts are gone by this point, as are experiences of emotion. Feelings of deep interconnectedness and union with God, an all pervasive consciousness, and so forth also disappeared. These participants reported having no sense of agency or any ability to make a decision. It felt as if life was simply unfolding and they were watching the process happen. Severe memory deficits were common in these participants, including the inability to recall scheduled events that were not regular and ongoing. Participants who progressed to this location from one or more previous ones reported the highest level of well-being. Often this amazed them as they did not imagine anything could have been better than Location 3.

So this process I'm calling enlightenment.

[Preetom]

@Enlightenment

1) Reduction in self referential thoughts

2) Change in the sense of self/expansion beyond the head

3) Being one with with visual and auditory field

4) Loss of sense of agency 

5) Severe memory deficit

6) inability to make decisions

so on and so forth...

You are nitpicking on the symptoms of the disease man!

But what is the DISEASE??

There could be dozens of other diseases that share these symptoms mutually.

But what is THE DISEASE? 

Something that comes or something that is newly acquired is sure to get lost eventually  

Edited February 3, 2019 by Preetom

[Enlightenment]

42 minutes ago, Preetom said:

5) Severe memory deficit

It's not severe in the beginning of location 4 but as you get deeper episodic memory get much worse

42 minutes ago, Preetom said:

6) inability to make decisions

This refers not to literally not being able to make a choice in real life but to loss of feeling as though I'm somebody or something that makes decisions, also to the loss of sense of agency like waving my hand in front of my eyes doesn't feel like "I" am doing it. It's just a prosses

42 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Something that comes or something that is newly acquired is sure to get lost eventually

Once acquired for about 7 months (from their research) it's most likely going to last one's entire life if not intentionally reversed. It's not permanent because it can be reversed by certain techniques, brain damage, extreme stress. It's VERY persistent but not permanent.  

@Preetom

Edited February 3, 2019 by Enlightenment

[WelcometoReality]

14 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

1) Enlightenment is the end of all suffering

Unfortunately no, enlightenment definitely lowers suffering and lead to a much better moment to moment experience of being you, but doesn't eliminate all suffering, physical pain is one example. Even if that would be possible, it wouldn't be a functional state.

2) Enlightenment is permanent ego death

Ego is still functioning after enlightenment. Ego is something that allows me to write these words. After enlightenment, there is a process that unfolds for years and it does change structures of the ego.

3) Enlightenment is some kind of everlasting bliss

 It feels rather like metta equanimity than bliss

4) Enlightenment shows a person true nature of reality, God or that it would 100% convince a skeptic materialist to believe in non-duality

I can guarantee you that there are many people having persistent non symbolic expierience who are still skeptic materialist paradigm believers. In terms of convincing power, full unity experience on psychedelics is much stronger, yet there are still people who refuse to self validate what they believe to be the Truth.

5) Enlighten person never hurts other people, always have good morals, have great personality etc.

Enlightenment doesn't touch personality disorders antisocial, avoidant etc... 

6) Enlighten person never experience anxiety and/or is fearless

Well, obviously people still have working amygdala after enlightenment. Also getting rid of fear/anxiety would create some serious problems.

1) Pain still arises but the thought stories about the pain seem to disappear.

2) There still is an ego here. Maybe the experience of ego death will come who knows?

3) Agreed

4) To me the interest in non-dual vs materialist concepts and concepts in general seem to have dallen away.

5) The personality has changed. More accepting of people. I don't think it touches such disorders if they are physical.

6) Anxiety, fear and worries seem to have disappeared. There was fear when I was on a roller coaster last summer but not before or after.

[Preetom]

4 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

It's not severe in the beginning of location 4 but as you get deeper episodic memory get much worse

This refers not to literally not being able to make a choice in real life but to loss of feeling as though I'm somebody or something that makes decisions, also to the loss of sense of agency like waving my hand in front of my eyes doesn't feel like "I" am doing it. It's just a prosses

Once acquired for about 7 months (from their research) it's most likely going to last one's entire life if not intentionally reversed. It's not permanent because it can be reversed by certain techniques, brain damage, extreme stress. It's VERY persistent but not permanent.  

@Preetom

The unfortunate irony of these studies and models is that they don't recognize the futility of trying to explain a 1st order reality with a 2nd order reality.

It's like my character in my dream (let's name him Joe) frantically searching for the place and time of origin of the world he finds himself in; without realizing that the very concepts of time and space are 2nd order of projections of his own overmind. 

1) Scientists study brain waves and deludes themselves into thinking that they are studying Consciousness

2) Scientists studying and building amotic models and thinks that they are discovering the TRUTH of Existence

3) People see how 'enlightened' people behave or seem to act and correlate that with actual Truth-realization

is it surprising that so much misconception exist in this field? 

 

[Preetom]

45 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Nice one. I totally agree.

Where is my cookie? 

[thesmileyone]

It is interesting when people who aren't what they call enlightened (and have a totally incorrect definition of what enlightenment is) lecture people on what enlightenment is.