Some common myths about enlightenment

[Enlightenment]

1) Enlightenment is the end of all suffering

Unfortunately no, enlightenment definitely lowers suffering and lead to a much better moment to moment experience of being you, but doesn't eliminate all suffering, physical pain is one example. Even if that would be possible, it wouldn't be a functional state.

2) Enlightenment is permanent ego death

Ego is still functioning after enlightenment. Ego is something that allows me to write these words. After enlightenment, there is a process that unfolds for years and it does change structures of the ego.

3) Enlightenment is some kind of everlasting bliss

 It feels rather like metta equanimity than bliss

4) Enlightenment shows a person true nature of reality, God or that it would 100% convince a skeptic materialist to believe in non-duality

I can guarantee you that there are many people having persistent non symbolic expierience who are still skeptic materialist paradigm believers. In terms of convincing power, full unity experience on psychedelics is much stronger, yet there are still people who refuse to self validate what they believe to be the Truth.

5) Enlighten person never hurts other people, always have good morals, have great personality etc.

Enlightenment doesn't touch personality disorders antisocial, avoidant etc... 

6) Enlighten person never experience anxiety and/or is fearless

Well, obviously people still have working amygdala after enlightenment. Also getting rid of fear/anxiety would create some serious problems.

[Tistepiste]

Thank you a lot for this post! Certainly the most common misconceptions!!

"lead to a much better moment to moment experience of being you"

-Define "much better". Is it even on the same scale as when you're unconscious? Or is it a totally different awaraness that can't even be compared in its intensity because it's so radically different and profound?

Edited February 2, 2019 by Tistepiste

[Enlightenment]

@Mikael89

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Physical pain is a passing impermanent experience which someone fully enlightened doesn't identify with. It's just a sensation, it can be felt, yes. But it doesn't mean that there is suffering from it.

Concentration practices can lead to cessation that end all suffering, a monk can be burned to death and not even flinch in this state, but just raw enlightenment doesn't give you that ability. A lot of those spiritual teachers who refers to pain as just sensation are actually meditating every day to maintain a unified mind through concentration and the benefits that they have from it are confused with the benefits of their enlightenment, these are two different things.

 

14 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Enlightenment is per definition knowing the Truth. Someone still skeptic is not enlightened, simple as that.

Ok so in your definition he would not be enlightened. What I'm saying is that someone can have exactly the same experience as what is considered classic enlightenment and still be a skeptic. 

[corndjorn]

all that you described is awakening, NOT enlightenment. Enlightenment is a very real thing. enlightenment is when your limbic sytem catches up with the awakening and clears all subconcious fears and the attachments that try running away from. many people that just awoke to nonduality think that thats it, but they couldnt be farther from the truth, their reality will start to crumble because all their egoic paradigms will slowly be released, which can hurt. since fear is not synonomous with enlightenment, dont convince yourself your enlightened when youre not, youre just awakened to nonduality, there millions that are, but very few that are fully enlightened.

[Enlightenment]

@corndjorn

So there are no Enlightened people as even 40000h meditation monks have a fear response to a loud unexpected sound when measured in the lab, that's subconscious fear.

[corndjorn]

@Enlightenment yes, enlightenment is not an easy ordeal, its a process that takes time and patience. awakening to nonduality is the easy part, removing the delusional thorns from your subconcious is the hard part. look up shunryu zen master, he has work that talks about this.

[Sockrattes]

2 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

1) Enlightenment is the end of all suffering

Unfortunately no, enlightenment definitely lowers suffering and lead to a much better moment to moment experience of being you, but doesn't eliminate all suffering, physical pain is one example. Even if that would be possible, it wouldn't be a functional state.

2) Enlightenment is permanent ego death

Ego is still functioning after enlightenment. Ego is something that allows me to write these words. After enlightenment, there is a process that unfolds for years and it does change structures of the ego.

3) Enlightenment is some kind of everlasting bliss

 It feels rather like metta equanimity than bliss

4) Enlightenment shows a person true nature of reality, God or that it would 100% convince a skeptic materialist to believe in non-duality

I can guarantee you that there are many people having persistent non symbolic expierience who are still skeptic materialist paradigm believers. In terms of convincing power, full unity experience on psychedelics is much stronger, yet there are still people who refuse to self validate what they believe to be the Truth.

5) Enlighten person never hurts other people, always have good morals, have great personality etc.

Enlightenment doesn't touch personality disorders antisocial, avoidant etc... 

6) Enlighten person never experience anxiety and/or is fearless

Well, obviously people still have working amygdala after enlightenment. Also getting rid of fear/anxiety would create some serious problems.

Sounds like you have a very superficial view on what enlightenment actually is. The whole text sounds like you are suggesting that people on a spiritual path are getting enlightened on a daily basis. But that's not the case. It is an extrem rare phenomena if what Buddha taught is real.

Once you have realised Anatman (no self) you can still live up to seven lifetimes until you reach Nirvana.

According to Buddha Shakyamuni Nirvana is the end of all suffering and everlasting bliss.

He never talked about "ego". That's a term used by western esoteric authors. It is not a term rooted in south, east or southeast-asian spirituality. You shouldn't mix that up.

The Buddha taught dependent arising after his enlightenment.

Can't say anything about 5 and 6 but those statements sounds wrong as well.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Sockrattes

[Joseph Maynor]

Thanks for posting this.  I'm not saying I agree with everything you say here, but a lot of it I do.  

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[corndjorn]

4 hours ago, Sockrattes said:

Sounds like you have a very superficial view on what enlightenment actually is. The whole text sounds like you are suggesting that people on a spiritual path are getting enlightened on a daily basis. But that's not the case. It is an extrem rare phenomena if what Buddha taught is real.

Once you have realised Anatman (no self) you can still live up to seven lifetimes until you reach Nirvana.

According to Buddha Shakyamuni Nirvana is the end of all suffering and everlasting bliss.

He never talked about "ego". That's a term used by western esoteric authors. It is not a term rooted in south, east or southeast-asian spirituality. You shouldn't mix that up.

The Buddha taught dependent arising after his enlightenment.

Can't say anything about 5 and 6 but those statements sounds wrong as well.

this.

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, corndjorn said:

this.

First you become Enlightened and then come tell us about your experience.  All this heresay stuff and wishful thinking stuff is useful at the start of the Path but is shed off like a set of training-wheels later on.  You can really only speak from your own experience.  The Ego-Mind can and does come up with all kinds of bullshit about Enlightenment.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor you are not enlightened. you are awake to nonduality however, but it seems you havent spent much time in your state to realize the importance of what the many traditions and teachers such as the buddha taught about the process of taking out the memory of attachment and fear in your subconcious, which is delusional ultimately in complete nonduality. your limbic system has to catch up to the awakening. you cannot say youre enlightened when you probably have fears just as much as the the guy next door, complete enlightenment is not something that happens instaneously, and we shouldnt be worried about "reaching" there either, just abiding in awareness and letting go of fear mechanisms as they arise is enough.

Edited February 3, 2019 by corndjorn

[Enlightenment]

7 hours ago, Sockrattes said:

Once you have realised Anatman (no self) you can still live up to seven lifetimes until you reach Nirvana.

According to Buddha Shakyamuni Nirvana is the end of all suffering and everlasting bliss.

1

Yes, permanent Nirvana is reached after one's death but it can be "experienced" as temporary attainment while one's is still alive and many Buddhist say that it's actually lights out, cessation of consciousness 

[Enlightenment]

@corndjorn Let me ask you this - why there are no studies on these fearless people, I mean they would be a huge phenomena 

One truly fearless woman known as S.M patient has been extensively studied because she, due to very rare genetic condition have no amygdala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M._(patient)

[Will Bigger]

yup@Enlightenment

[corndjorn]

@Enlightenment I did not claim that i met a person with complete enlightenment, but what im saying is that the path to it exists and starts after awakening to no self. your consciousness "catches up" with the awakening by releasing all those fear mechanisms and its egoic paradigms in your memory which is not synonomous with enlightenment. anyone who has stablized in no self for a while notices this ongoing process in consciousness, the nondual awakening becomes more and more in depth.

[Sockrattes]

2 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

Yes, permanent Nirvana is reached after one's death but it can be "experienced" as temporary attainment while one's is still alive and many Buddhist say that it's actually lights out, cessation of consciousness 

It's actually the cessation of cravings and attachments.

You must understand that everything taught by the Buddha is based on a particular worldview: Samsara exists.

If you don't believe in or understand Samsara, Nirvana won't make much sense either.

[Hima Izumi]

HOLY SHIT. OP you are so wrong. OMG I don't even know where to start.

 

Please give up on the path. it's not for you.

[Enlightenment]

@Hima Izumi Do the practices, attain persistent no sense of agency non-dual awareness, then experience a variety of different life situations in that state, then come back and let's have a conversation. Until then what you think about enlightenment is a projection.

[Aaron p]

I love the analogy of the cinema screen. When fire shows up on the screen is the screen burned? When water shows up on the screen is the screen wet? Or if it's snowing on the screen is the screen cold? 

I really really like this analogy

[Preetom]

13 hours ago, Sockrattes said:

Sounds like you have a very superficial view on what enlightenment actually is. The whole text sounds like you are suggesting that people on a spiritual path are getting enlightened on a daily basis. But that's not the case. It is an extrem rare phenomena if what Buddha taught is real.

 

Oh thanks for writing this one. This cracked me up big time 

I think almost all the misconceptions about enlightenment has come from misinterpretations and undervaluing of what that term really means.

More than 99% would consider a glorious meditation sit, a runner's high, an ejaculative dream, an intimate bonding with a partner/pet, accomplishing of some goal redeemed impossible at first, reading and agreeing with some spiritual/philosophical text/theory or even a good night's sleep as a moment of enlightenment lol. In that sense, you can have millions of people getting enlightened every single hour

The way I see Enlightenment, how it was originally explored and proposed, is a 'state' of Truth- that which is. It's an irreversible breakthrough after which an ego can never arise again with it's objective identification mechanism. That absolute truth realization must alone prevail. No buts or exceptions can remain after that. It's literally the end of the game. Done means done. 

If not, then you're not done yet oh enlightened master/mistress.

Seeing from this standard, we can easily see how the number of 'enlightened' people would probably never rise above few hundreds; not billions of every other average joe who has read the power of now or snorted some powder and feels him/her as the 2nd coming of buddha or whatever

Edited February 3, 2019 by Preetom