I think psychedelics can blunt spiritual progress. thoughts?

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus “The place you are coming from, your intention, your perspective, your view, self honesty, awareness and genuinity matter far more. There are lessons you are here to learn. Are you learning them or averting your eyes. Trying to escape and live in a fantasy world.

Practices can make you study faster, but if you are not even on the right chapter they can’t take you where you need to go.” 

Hence the buddhas emphasis on the 8 fold path.

To start. Again the 8 fold path, or if they don’t vibe with you. The 4 yogas, yamas and niyamas are an alternative that although don’t have as much depth are a great start.

Interesting. I made some research on it. It's new to me.

But how is doing this 8fold path will help you reach absolute no cravings no aversion state.? How will it dissolve all the karma?

[corndjorn]

@Matt8800 thats a good way to use them, ive used them like that aswell rhough il admit not all the time. But what i think the main issue is even when ur intention is to clear your karmic attachments, is that as humans we still have egoic blindspots imo, and its harder to let go of your blindspots when they are amplified to a large degree. I think even post trip those blindspots would still be amplified in a way.

[Matt8800]

26 minutes ago, corndjorn said:

@Matt8800 thats a good way to use them, ive used them like that aswell rhough il admit not all the time. But what i think the main issue is even when ur intention is to clear your karmic attachments, is that as humans we still have egoic blindspots imo, and its harder to let go of your blindspots when they are amplified to a large degree. I think even post trip those blindspots would still be amplified in a way.

For me, when I take psychedelics, my blind spots are illuminated. When they are illuminated, I go to work on them.

I think you might have some points that psychedelics are a distraction from what needs to get done. My makeup is very different from the typical spiritual seeker however. Regardless, I agree that if people cant be honest with themselves as to what is a true asset and detriment, then they might not have the attributes it takes to reach the higher levels of awakening.

Some people need a guru. To some people, a guru is just a distraction. I see psychedelics the same way.

[corndjorn]

@Matt8800 thats cool that its doing good for you, more power to you then. i still think there are blindspots the people miss though, its just how humans work tbh, theres things that they dont know what they are doing, but even that blindspot would eventually get dealt with i believe, either through life triggering it or by your own self reflection. and yeah you're right when you said that if people are honest about what is a true asset and detriment for them, then that will aid their path. though also to add on that, is to be open for when those assests possibly become a detriment aswell, and being able to let go of past paradigms of practice that are of no need anymore. 

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus What karma essentially does is it blocks off parts of reality that we subconsciously refuse to look at. Walls is in. In our own little world. 

The more karma is burned the more of reality is seen. Practices are great for burning karma. If you are ready to look at the karma you have in a sense. If you allow it to come up. If you allow life to force it up from the depth of your being.

the 8 fold path or cultivating the qualities it talks about does exactly that. Once they come up. Any sort of practice or just genuine self reflection, closing your eyes, taking a walk. Will do the trick;)

As you cultivate these qualities and burn karma you develop more and more until you reach the end. 

At which point you are an embodiment of what the 8 fold path tries you to develop.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Arhattobe

[ivory]

On 2/1/2019 at 10:27 PM, corndjorn said:

@ivory awakening to nonduality is not full enlightenment. your energetic system which has a memory of fear mechanisms and attachments has to catch up to the awakening. only then can that be full enlightement. because how can you be truly nondual when fear mechanisms are still in your subconcious mind? a cleansing process of your limbic system has to take place for full enlightenment.

How would one measure degrees of enlightenment? 

[Salvijus]

@Arhattobe let me see if I follow you.

The more you cultivate these 8qualities. The deeper layers of karma will come up. And when you burn all the karma then you're in perfect equanimous state. With no cravings and aversions.

Did i get it right?

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus yezzir ❣️

[Salvijus]

@Arhattobe interesting. 

But that basicly what samyama is. They say they open many lifetimes of karma in you and teach you to be in meditation with your eyes open. So that you don't gather new karma anymore. You only dissolve dissolve dissolve.What do you think? They call it Life on fast forward I like how

they call it

Sorry it's the first video were he talks about opening meny Life times at once through initiation in samyama. Starts at 9.30min

Second video is just a mistake idk how to delete it.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus Haven’t heard of Samyama. I don’t really listen to teachers, but sadhguru does have way more knowledge than most teachers. He is also the only person I’ve seen that talks about some phenomenon that has happened to me.

Whether I believe he is fully enlightened or not doesn’t matter lol:)

[Salvijus]

@Arhattobesamyama is his final program. There's shambhavi, shoonya and then samyama.

It's also like that 8fold path that focuses on dissolving karma but the way they do it is very different... Simply but sheer force of initiation they open up deep layers of karma in you and then your life becomes very intense and fast. All you have to do is stay equanimous and your karma dissolves, dissolves, dissolves... I find it very fasinating

Does 8fold path has an initiation? Because sadhguru is saying unless a certain amount of energy is invested in you it will take many lifetimes to completly dissolve.

 

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus If you meditate, are genuine and practice the 8 fold path in an honest manner. The universe will provide you with the initiation needed. 

If your lucky you can find a good and advanced Buddhist monk that can help you along energetically too, but that depends on your luck.

I don’t believe Samyama can possibly dissolve all your karma though. No practice along can. Life put you here to learn, not to hack it with some practice lol

[corndjorn]

@ivory theres many enlightenment maps online and the buddha also made a map too, but if im honest i dont think anyone can measure degrees of enlightenment accurately, its much more related to your own makeup and your own depth of experience. measuring isnt really important, but as time progresses after your awakening you can see that the depth and clarity of your state is much more deeper than it once was.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

I don’t believe Samyama can possibly dissolve all your karma though. No practice along can. Life put you here to learn, not to hack it with some practice lol

No no no. samyama is not a practice. It's an initiation that would unload lifetimes of karma into this lifetime. And thus your life becomes very intense like fast forward. And you learn and you grow very very fast and you dissolve the karma. That's what is so special about samyama. They say if a person gets into trouble every 6months after samyama initiation he will get into trouble every 6hours. because he is working out 100 Life times of karma all at once. Witch is a great benefit. Because if you go slowly it can take many lifetimes to dissolve everything. And on the way you might gather more karma and more karma. 

What they teach you in samyama is how to stay equanimous and meditate with your eyes open so when you interact with the world you are in meditative state and you go super fast and you don't gather any new karma. And every situation that happens to you puts you higher and higher and higher. And then total dissolusion.

What do you think?

It's like an 8fold path but much faster because there's an energy initiation being done to you that opens up life times of karma that makes the dissolving process and life very intense and fast.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[ivory]

56 minutes ago, corndjorn said:

if im honest i dont think anyone can measure degrees of enlightenment accurately

Exactly. Soooo... then full enlightenment is what? 

[corndjorn]

@ivory just because you cant measure accurately doesnt mean it doesnt exist... and if you read my text with its context i said that the best way to measure is comparing your nondual states depth now and before, thats the only way. and getting caught up in measuring states is only gonna make the process slower since youre getting caught up in unimportant stuff.

and full enlgihtenment is the cessation of all fear mechanisms and dependencies.

Edited February 3, 2019 by corndjorn

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus 

I think pain is the best teacher. Without the pain and suffering that comes with the releasing of karma or living of karma we do not truly grow. Therefor I doubt the effectiveness of any path that promises too much without the pain. 

Also if you are given more than you can handle at any given time. You will lose your mind or become suidical. Hence why the qualities and perspective are incredibly important.

[Aquarius]

@corndjorn What enlightenment model are you using?  

Actual firsthand experience is more valuable than over-thinking a situation. Language, words (whether written or spoken) are pointers, not the actual experience, and it is easy to project ideas into written language, especially when debating things. What works for you is valid and it's great that you know yourself so well, it saves you from a lot of trouble. I can only congratulate you for it, good job.  

Studying the right, needed material (books, articles) saves you countless hours of suffering. Don't expect others to answer your questions and do the research for you, you could buy the actual books that offer advice for what is needed. And if someone gives you advice on this forum, I recommend you don't reply back immediately. Keep your cool, contemplate what they said.

In certain cases action is needed. Mastery of anything takes continuous practice and openness to learn, maintain and keep up. Whether it's spiritual practice or a hobby. 

Eye-opening video to consider:

 

13 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

I doubt the effectiveness of any path that promises too much without the pain. 

Pain arises from resistance. Pain is a pointer, a teacher indeed, but Truth is soothing. If a particular idea hurts, it's not Truth.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Aquarius