I think psychedelics can blunt spiritual progress. thoughts?

[Salvijus]

7 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus and no he is clearly uncomfortable. 

I don't see it. I don't see any anxiety that you're seeing. tho i see why would you think like that... It is not sadhguru who's uncomfortable it is the host who is creating this sense of breaking personal boundaries. And when you watch him be so close to sadhguru your mind subconciously puts you in that situation and you feel uncomfortable by that and then you project that feeling onto sadhguru. Not cool bro. Not cool... It's the host who is making that strange geometry that is a bit weird and it produces a vibe that something is out of shape, something is out of rythim. But sadhguru is at perfect ease here as always. The way sadhguru is responding is perfect.. You just can't see it. Your personal feelings are interfering with your perception too much.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor

3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's funny that you took the time to make this because you've projected so much onto me that is counter to the points I've made in this thread.  And then think of this -- what kind of an Ego would make such a diagram lampooning another member of the Forum?  You see, your Ego would have to be triggered, right?  It is humorous, I'll give you that, but your massive Ego still got triggered to the extent that you premeditated and then created this artwork (to give you the benefit of the doubt haha) lampooning me.  See, that's what I'm talking about.  Egos like you now come on the Forum and pretend you're seeking No Ego.  Not you're not!  You really are not.  That's an Ego trip on your end to try to conceal your Ego from criticism and from harm through the manifestation of a Spiritual Ego.  Paradoxically, only Egos that fully love and accept themselves as Egos can practice No Ego and can have Ego mediated by No Ego and can become Enlightened to the extent that the word carries any real world use.

Damn and I supposed I was just making a joke. Btw

" Paradoxically, only Egos that fully love and accept themselves as Egos can practice No Ego "

Bit of a catch 22 innit?

[DnoReally]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You guys use the word devil.  Well use it on yourselves.  

Again, a joke. Leo closed literally 50 threads this month, because of devilry. 

Funnily enough around the time he released the Cult videos. (Not to say that he shouldnt have done that, he just comes across like some fringe catholic extremist to people who dont know what he means by devil)

[pluto]

[Esoteric]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This is easy to say and your Ego-Mind said it.  Yeah Joseph is a jerk.  Ok.  So now what.  What about you?  Are you such a nice person?  I don't think so.  See, this kind of pot-stirring is useless.  You guys use the word devil.  Well use it on yourselves.  Of course it would never apply to you, right?  That Spiritual Ego you got is a menace because you're not even fully conscious of your own Ego.  And yet you castigate my Ego in the most unfair light that your Ego-Mind can creatively muster.  I talked about being able to pass the laugh test before; this one doesn't pass the smell test.

I have to be honest.. Not that impressed with coral.

Also if you read my post I am struggling with my spiritual ego. I try and see it when it shows up. It's one of my main priorities on the path. I have plenty of self-deception, and I witness and acknowledge it, and yeah I probably get fooled by my ego a lot.

But anyways.. You are full of shit. You've built an identity around a spiritual persona on an internet forum as a desperate attempt to get approval and attention (and perhaps to mate?). It's incredibly obvious. And you NEED to get called out on it, it will be good for you in the long run.

People like that irritate the shit of me, and it's something I have to work further on, definitely. Good day to you.

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus He is really not. I watched that video 4 years ago when I was super into him. Was doing his kriya and had a similar idea of him as you do now, and even then I was like... he is a trip.

justified it with something I read in his book, that once in a while he needs long intense safhana to get his system in order.

[Salvijus]

@Arhattobe interesting. Well maybe you're right. But right now i just don't see it. Maybe someday. All i can see is confusion around him and incohesive questions witch make uncomfortable atmosphere but I don't see any anxiety coming out of him. Maybe a little hesitation before answering the questions because those questions are so illogical and incohesive. And before sadhguru has time to clarify things the host is shooting another set of incohesive questions at him. Witch naturally leads to disturbence. Usually Sadhguru takes 10min to answer 1 question to settle the atmosphere to prepare people's receptivity and bring clarity but host is just causing disturbence nonstop and after causing so much mess he says. Thank you for your time. Good bye

Also.You did Inner Engineering program? 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[Arhattobe]

I did. Back when I did it the inner engineering program and shmbhavi weren’t one thing though. So I took inner engineering. Then shambhavi. 

At the time he wasnt that big. 

I also saw him in person once. @Salvijus

Edited February 3, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Salvijus]

I see

And what now? What practice do you do now? What teacher do you listen to? Did you find someone who's completly enlightened by your standarts?

Just curious

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus The Buddha and Theravada Buddhism.

He is the only person that emphasises the end of craving, and all fear as full enlightenment. Whom I believe to be fully enlightened.

I mostly use the buddhas teachings to make sense of what’s happening to me though.

Practice wise. I dont really have a practice. My energetic process happens by itself, and is always quite intense. Meditation doesn’t even help anymore. I stopped meditating a while ago.

Used to meditate 4-6 hours a day though at one point.

Asides from the Buddha and Theravada Buddhism. Zen Buddhism is kind of good but now where near as nuanced and detailed. Very one dimensional.

The last modern teacher that helped me, whose teachings I found helpful was sheng yen. That was a while ago.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus The Buddha and Theravada Buddhism.

He is the only person that emphasises the end of craving, and all fear as full enlightenment. 

You mean like no cravings no aversions. Like in vippassana? End of samsaras, end of life and death. End of karma, dissolving all your karma. Is that what you consider fully enlightened?

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus No cravings I mean no conscious or subconscious tendencies. The capacity itself to feel tendencies and vasanas. It goes very, very, very deep.

You know how non dual teacher say emotions arise but their let go of easily. That’s just a calm state in which all your issues still remain. They just don’t stick. 

The complete cessation of such arisings. Reactions, and issues In an absolute way is what I call full enlightenment. 

 

Ive done a lot of practices. Started with ashtanga, and hatha, then Raja, a number of extreme breathing techniques, breath of fire, kriyas, number of gurus, everything really lol, and they each helped me. Great tools, but don’t attribute any of them to my either my awakening nor the process afterward. 

The place you are coming from, your intention, your perspective, your view, self honesty, awareness and genuinity matter far more. There are lessons you are here to learn. Are you learning them or averting your eyes. Trying to escape and live in a fantasy world.

Practices can make you study faster, but if you are not even on the right chapter they can’t take you where you need to go.

Hence the buddhas emphasis on the 8 fold path.

 

[Salvijus]

28 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus No cravings I mean no conscious or subconscious tendencies. The capacity itself to feel tendencies and vasanas. It goes very, very, very deep.

You know how non dual teacher say emotions arise but their let go of easily. That’s just a calm state in which all your issues still remain. They just don’t stick. 

The complete cessation of such arisings. Reactions, and issues In an absolute way is what I call full enlightenment. 

Interesting. Sadhguru is talking about dissolving all your karma including lifetimes of karma. Because karma or the memory of past is a thing that is ruling us. it descides what we react to and what we like and dislike.

Is this the same thing that you're talking about?

To completly dissolve karma = "The complete cessation of such arisings. Reactions, and issues In an absolute way"

Because sadhguru's last program witch is called samyama is all about dissolving karma. I wonder if this is the same thing that you're talking about. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Salvijus

[Jack River]

Some great questions my good friend @Facelessshared with me a while back. 

Can we obsever all the ways in which we are attached to the content of our consciousness? 

Can we see all the subtle & unconscious ways we try to immortalize ourselves in daily life? 

What is immortality? Because this is in direct relation to this content of conciousness & to death. 

33 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

the memory of past is a thing that is ruling us. it descides what we react to and what we like and dislike.

Very much related to what you posted above. The past in which has influenced a cycle of reaction (subject/object) association as being means to bring about a manufactured sense of immortality. A self feeding loop that sustains the continuity of “me”, an isolated entity who looks to objects to capture this immortality. A seeking of immortality in which denies that which is eternal as a result. Every step taken is away from that which is inherently eternal. 

 

 

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus Yes, but again the focus shouldn’t be on a practice imo:)

[Salvijus]

13 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus Yes, but again the focus shouldn’t be on a practice imo:)

On what then? 

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus “The place you are coming from, your intention, your perspective, your view, self honesty, awareness and genuinity matter far more. There are lessons you are here to learn. Are you learning them or averting your eyes. Trying to escape and live in a fantasy world.

Practices can make you study faster, but if you are not even on the right chapter they can’t take you where you need to go.” 

Hence the buddhas emphasis on the 8 fold path.

To start. Again the 8 fold path, or if they don’t vibe with you. The 4 yogas, yamas and niyamas are an alternative that although don’t have as much depth are a great start.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Matt8800]

20 hours ago, corndjorn said:

@Matt8800 as ive said in the post, psychedelics are good tools for awakenings but NOT full enlightenment. ive had my first nondual awakening through psychs and i thank their purpose in my path, but at a certain point once youve been stabilized in nonduality sober for many years, youll see that the subconcious need for psychedelic or mystical experiences is just another attachment to be dropped, extreme and fancy experiences will never get you to enlightenment, only give u a fancy awakening. but full enlightenment is a slow delicate process of your limbic system catching up with the awakening.

Each path is unique. I would caution anyone that assumes that their path must be identical to others' paths.

The Gita points out that it is not what we do that is most important, it is our motivation. Just because someone uses psychedelics does not mean they are attached. Psychedelics are tools that can be used in many ways - it is not just for mystical experiences.

I get the impression you assume others that do psychedelics are not stabilized in non-duality (there are many levels of non-duality stabilization). That is just an assumption. Its not possible for you to know my degree of stabilization in non-duality nor how and why I use psychedelics. 

Someone once asked Nisagadatta why he was attached to smoking cigarettes. Nisagadatta's response was to ask him why he was attached to non-smoking of cigarettes. Although I dont think one can compare the massive benefits of psychedelics to smoking cigarettes, I think the point is relevant here.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Matt8800

[corndjorn]

@Matt8800 that is true about nisrgadattas point, but i never really said psychs are bad all out and that its not relative. Ive axknowledged that psychs have many benefits but one quality of the psychedelic experience is energetic amplification. Now with amplifiying ur consciousness you can get alot of benefits such as seeing your subconcious mechanisms more clearly, awakening to nonduality, dealing with trauma, etc.. but why i say as tool its not the most conductive kind for enlightebment, is because it also amplifies your personalized emotional worlds to a large extent, and as a person stabilizes in nonduality he releases these emotional worlds bit by bit in a slow peocess until there is no longer personalized worlds, hence why nondual states get deeper with time. With psychs being an amplifier, ive noticed that it would be much harder to release those emotional worlds if psychs are used frequently, especially our blindspots. 

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, corndjorn said:

@Matt8800 that is true about nisrgadattas point, but i never really said psychs are bad all out and that its not relative. Ive axknowledged that psychs have many benefits but one quality of the psychedelic experience is energetic amplification. Now with amplifiying ur consciousness you can get alot of benefits such as seeing your subconcious mechanisms more clearly, awakening to nonduality, dealing with trauma, etc.. but why i say as tool its not the most conductive kind for enlightebment, is because it also amplifies your personalized emotional worlds to a large extent, and as a person stabilizes in nonduality he releases these emotional worlds bit by bit in a slow peocess until there is no longer personalized worlds, hence why nondual states get deeper with time. With psychs being an amplifier, ive noticed that it would be much harder to release those emotional worlds if psychs are used frequently, especially our blindspots. 

I think we might be using different methods and reasons for psychedelics. I look for attachments and aversions like Im on a mission and when I find them, I am merciless with them. Psychedelics to me are like a scope for a sniper so it makes it easier for me to identify, hunt down and annihilate those  "emotional worlds" once and for all.

I guess that just illustrates my point that everyone's path is different. What you found is true for you regarding psychedelics is the opposite of my direct experience. 

I dont take psychedelics for mystical experiences. When I take them, I roll up my sleeves and get to work.

Some people take the Buddhist path. Some take the yogic path. Some take the shamanic path. Some take a little of everything.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Matt8800