I think psychedelics can blunt spiritual progress. thoughts?

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor Yes, I'm half asleep dont worry if what I say may seem like incoherent rambling to you. Didn't this whole thing start with him saying that an enlightened person is inherently (sorta per definition) free of ego. I just wanted to know why you take issue with that.

Edited February 3, 2019 by DnoReally

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor sometimes in life there are breadcrumbs of truth, even though it doesnt show itself fully (because im not in complete nonduality and havent met one yet) but in my experience and others that ive discussed with in the zen domain, there is indeed a complete enlightenment and process of ego dissolution thats occuring to many people who stabilized in nonduality for a while. and its not like its a new discussion, buddhist zen and other traditions have been discussing this for thousands of years. shit, even normal people go through this process, but probably unconscious, each time life triggers their attachments they have an oppurtunity of egoic dissolution. i think you shouldnt be quick to call bs, no need to believe either just be open to the possibility.

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor Seen it twice. All good as far as I'm concerned

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor dont be so quick to believe in your own paradigms, be open to the possibility, these traditions that have been practicing enlightenment for thousands of years arent just talking out of their ass, i thought so too, but at my point in the path i see more and more the value of their teachings and the nuances of the path. for you to be truly nondual then all fear mechanisms by definition should be out the door, and an ego is the bundle of all fear mechanisms. if the buddha says that non egoic living is possible and other traditions than i think u should be open to that possibility instead of sticking to your conceptions and just call out other perspectives bullshit.

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor and sure mankind is the bullshitting animal, but how do you know youre not bullshitting yourself? how do you know for sure what i am saying has not truth to it? you don't, so dont bs yourself. we cant have a constructive discussion without you being open.

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor Lol, sure mate. i feel like youre not acknoledging that enlightenment isnt over for you yet, you just awkaened, which many did in this forum including me since 4 years. the process happens regardless if youre awakened or not, maybe youll reach full dissolution or maybe not, regardless, its still happening. nonduality isnt truly nondual until all fear mechanisms are gone and the delusional veils of the subconcious mind are gone. you can still abide in awareness and see this process, no need to avoid it. avoiding what u fear is.. delusional and unenlightened by definition. and that is my whole point, awakening is not the end, a human has memory of many fear mechanisms that are slowly getting proccessed and let go of after awakening.

Edited February 3, 2019 by corndjorn

[DnoReally]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

My Ego has already been through the conceptual stage of the Path.  Been there done that.  

@Joseph Maynor Oh boy, I'm waiting for Leo to close this thread for devilry.

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor many people awakened to awareness, its not really something new in this forum. if you think thats that for enlightenment work then you havent spent much time in your nondual state, life will trigger your attachments and youll see what i mean by this process of letting go either way. your system has a memory of fear mechanisms, regardless if you awakened or not, it takes time for it to fully dissolve, even after awakening.

Edited February 3, 2019 by corndjorn

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor You sound very defensive there. I never claimed to be particularly far along on the path.

Btw what do you mean idealogue/philosopher? 

[Shadowraix]

This thread has downspiraled very quickly.

[Shadowraix]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I disagree.  That is gonna depend on your beliefs, which you seem to think are objective.

I don't.

[DnoReally]

25 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I disagree.  That is gonna depend on your beliefs, which you seem to think are like facts on the ground.  Can't you say -- I think this thread has downspiraled?  Why does it have to be said like it's an objective fact.  

Lemme give you an example to clarify:

(1) Chocolate ice cream is nasty.

vs. 

(2) I think chocolate ice cream is nasty.

Good night everyone. 

[Shadowraix]

29 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Can't you say -- I think this thread has downspiraled?  Why does it have to be said like it's an objective fact.  

It doesn't have to. I just chose to say it that way. 

I recommend stepping away from the forums for a day.

 

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

I just like to say that after I called psychedelics forced openings you probably shouldn't do again, after an already big opening, here, which I did plenty by the way but which i still agree with largely, I was in an intense ayahuasca / 5-meo ceremony dream ^^

Edited February 3, 2019 by AlwaysBeNice

[Esoteric]

3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't even talk about Spiral Dynamics anymore if you're noticed.  It's not that I don't find it useful, it's just that my Ego swung into that and now it's swung out of it.  I ate the grapes and spit out the seeds.  If someone asks me about it, I will respond, but I almost never bring it up.

Are you moving into coral?

[Esoteric]

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

At this point I don't see the utility of measuring myself up against the stages like I did before.  I still find the theory useful, but my Ego-Mind isn't clinging to it so much anymore.

Holy self-deception

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor @Esoteric  

59 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

At this point I don't see the utility of measuring myself up against the stages like I did before.  I still find the theory useful, but my Ego-Mind isn't clinging to it so much anymore.

imo joseph is on point for not clinging to it and lessening his measuring

Edited February 3, 2019 by corndjorn

[Esoteric]

31 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

In what sense?  I'm not gonna let your Ego-Mind drop a rhetorical bomb without clarification.  You guys are getting too clever with the rhetoric on here.  Just be straightforward in your language.  Operate above the table, above the belt.  We're not trying to win here, we're trying to learn and to teach.  This is a discussion, not a fight.  I'm not a bad guy I promise.  I can be reasonable and prefer to be so.  We can operate from a calm, grounded, above-board place.  

Imo, if you are beyond turqoise you wouldn't spend so much time on a message getting offended and getting into debates with people. You would not be bragging about how you are moving into coral. You would be busy doing useful things.

Imagine if you had put those 11 000 posts into conciousness work?

But what the hell do I know. I'm still at a point where I struggle with my spiritual ego.

[Sempiternity]

19 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

Imo, if you are beyond turqoise you wouldn't spend so much time on a message getting offended and getting into debates with people. You would not be bragging about how you are moving into coral. You would be busy doing useful things.

Imagine if you had put those 11 000 posts into conciousness work?

But what the hell do I know. I'm still at a point where I struggle with my spiritual ego.

^ This. He's all Ego and is lying to himself and everyone else. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Jed Vassallo

[corndjorn]

@Jed Vassallo I dont think its right to say hes all ego, though we can help each other pointing out each others egoic blindspots, which is always good.