Are Psychedelics A Good Idea — Existential Crisis

[Nahm]

15 hours ago, PetarKa said:

Lately I have been struggling with some existential issues. Mainly on free will. I am fearful about my free will and from the conclusion that free will is an illusion I've been causing a lot of stress and fear in my life.

You are causing the stress and fear by choosing that perspective, even though it doesn’t feel good. Why in the world are you doing that?  Contemplate. 

After some research about psychedelics, I am skeptical about whether it's a good idea. I have not tried psychedelics. At first I read only positive things about them — they're used for treating depression, anxiety, PTSD, spiritual growth, etc. But then I also read that, although rare, some people might have a bad trip with bad psychological effects later after the trip.

Is it worth the risk? Is my situation appropriate for psychedelic use? Is a bad trip the result of chance, or the wrong approach / setting?

You’ll still be choosing perspectives. You know you can change them like shoes, right? If you feel like you can’t, this is good, you just discovered attachment to thoughts, and understand the reason for the practices. There are no “bad trips”, just reports from people who tried to skip creating a foundation with practices, and doing proper research. 

 

[PetarKa]

@Salvijus You say psychedelics are not for those who lack balance. But most of the research on psychedelics suggests that people without balance (depressed, anxious, worried about death, people in a crisis) will benefit tremendously from the trip, while there is much less research done on the benefits of psychedelics in healthy individuals.

@Leo Gura By that reasoning any risky endeavor is worth jumping into. What if you forget to fasten your seat belt on the roller coaster? Is it not wise to take precautions?

I guess my main question is:
What's the best approach to tripping?

From what I've read, if people resist what the trip offers, they will have a bad time. Is this so?

[Forestluv]

@PetarKa There is no one best approach to tripping that applies to everyone. If you are interested in trying it, do some research and find an approach that works for you. There have been many threads on the forum with suggestions on how to trip the first time. There are many common suggestions about dosage and setting that tend to be helpful to most people. Yet if an ego resists surrender when it's time to face the music, it will be a bumpy ride. 

All the mental chatter about "Maybe it's like this. What if this happened?  Why do some people say yabba jabber? With this logic, how come this isn't that?" is a bunch of mental noise. If you want to try it, go for it. Use a trusted source, start with a small dose and ask people on the forum for suggestions about how to prepare. If it works for you, great. If not, ditch it and try something else. The only way to find out is to try it.

Yes, psychedelics can be used therapeutically in a clinical setting. As far as healthy people using psychedelics, it can be a very powerful spiritual and personal development tool - especially people at a Green or higher baseline conscious level.  A good example is Michael Pollen. Yet, psychedelics don't resonate with other people. 

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, PetarKa said:

@Salvijus You say psychedelics are not for those who lack balance. But most of the research on psychedelics suggests that people without balance (depressed, anxious, worried about death, people in a crisis) will benefit tremendously from the trip, while there is much less research done on the benefits of psychedelics in healthy individuals.
 

There could be some emotional release or purging out of all the bad stuff. These people could be suffering a lot and then gather lots of negative energy. Psychedelics can be like cleansing in that way. It leaves you feeling rejuvinated and heathier. But it can leave a scar on you if you don't have balance.

If being happy is what you want, if having a peaceful and stable mind is what you want then psychedelics will not give you that. It can seem like it works because of the purging effect it can have. But it will not increase your stability. It will only reduce it. Purging all the negative emotions does not amount to having a balanced, stable, steady mind.

And also to be balanced and peaceful can be much harder for those who constantly use psychedelics later. 

If you want some emotional release there are many safer ways to do that. Do some osho dynamic meditation. Cost nothing. Same result. No risk.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Salvijus

[Maya_0]

Free will is only an illusion because the you that you believe you are is an illusion. It entails that everything that happens is inevitable. 

That means even the fear that you feel is inevitable. Knowing that, the wise one let's go. 

[Aaron p]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@PetarKa If you haven't tried, then you don't know and will never know until afterward.

Stop trying to know things beforehand. You are putting the cart before the horse.

Either do, or do not.

You might as well be asking, "I've heard of roller-coasters, is going on a roller-coaster a good thing? What if it goes off the rails?"

"I've heard of microscopes, is looking into a microscope a good thing? What if a bacterium pokes my eye out?"

"I've heard of music. Should I listen to it? What if it gives me ear cancer?"

@Leo GuraGura GuraGur

True

[Inliytened1]

Existence is pure relativity so everything you hear is a story and in order for you to find the answer you must experience it for yourself.  The answer in your perspective is the answer....in your perspective.  But your perspective is all there is.  Litetally.   Take the stories and leverage them and make your decision whether you want a direct experience or not.  Only then will you have the answer.

[Aaron p]

20 hours ago, PetarKa said:

Lately I have been struggling with some existential issues. Mainly on free will. I am fearful about my free will and from the conclusion that free will is an illusion I've been causing a lot of stress and fear in my life. After some research about psychedelics, I am skeptical about whether it's a good idea. I have not tried psychedelics. At first I read only positive things about them — they're used for treating depression, anxiety, PTSD, spiritual growth, etc. But then I also read that, although rare, some people might have a bad trip with bad psychological effects later after the trip.

Is it worth the risk?

Is my situation appropriate for psychedelic use?

Is a bad trip the result of chance, or the wrong approach / setting?

@PetarKa i once heard a quote that went like this; "The only thing worse than looking back on your life, having taken a leap of faith, and fallen...would be never to have taken the leap at all."

What a waste of the one chance you had, that will never............EVER...come back again, and you played it safe. I only have 80 years left in this world...it's like a fucking video game. I have had DEEP insights into the fabric of this work, where it leads. If psychedelics get me there faster, I'm down....fuck everything else.......it doesn't even matter right now, I CANT SEE IT. I'm not awake.

 

(Coincidentally, I actually had an insight about psychedelics today...they somehow distort the "screen" or consciousness and draw your attention to the fragility of what you believed to be "empirical" reality...similar to how, if you were to mess with the input-output signals on a TV screen, your attention would be drawn to the screen itself...and away from the illusion of whatever was projecting before. I have noticed that people who have taken drugs like this to help them spiritually, have a certain aura about them...it smells like.......power...when I'm around it. It's a weight. I honestly don't like psychedelics ATM. Last time I had a bad trip, but once I get the test kits sorted...I'll be building my way up to 5-MeO-DMT defo. 

Enlightenment is the only thing that matters, only through enlightenment can we truly be alive and awake. Any illusion that you have that might tell you that you don't want enlightenment badly...is still an illusion. Only a lack of consciousness can hide how much you need consciousness.

[MisterMan]

yes, they are a good idea. Trip sitter is a good idea, someone you trust deeply. Do some research on it and take a small dose in a relaxed setting where you don't have to be anywhere. Most of the horror stories are from people generally being irresponsible and doing it for other reasons that personal development. 

 

If you are already at the stage where you identify psychedelics as a tool for personal growth. That's pretty good. Don't get cocky, humble and set your intention before the trip. 

 

I would dare say it's important not to try and make any meaning wether what is happening is good or bad, to the best of your abilities. As the story about the man and his son in the farm. HIs son breaks his arm. The neighbours say, oh how unlucky. The harvest is coming and you don't have your son to help you. This is bad. To which the father replies maybe, who knows? The next day the army comes to recruit youngsters. Since the son has a broken arm they keep him at home. The neighbours now say oh how lucky! The father replies maybe, who knows.

And on and on it goes back and forth where each situation when it happens seems to be bad, but a future occurence shows that it was actually good. So you can never truly know wether you are lucky or unlucky. That would be an important idea to ground yourself in as these trips can sweep the ground from underneath you. 

[RobertZ]

5 hours ago, PetarKa said:

I guess my main question is:
What's the best approach to tripping?

From what I've read, if people resist what the trip offers, they will have a bad time. Is this so?

It is wisdom that resisting a trip can lead to a difficult time. 

Onset can bring experiences like a completely different psychological perspective (imagine seeing the world from 10 different people's perspectives at the same time), visual brilliance, clarity of ideas, the patterns on wood flowing like water, hilarity, deep contemplations, images, and time distortions. However, emerging thoughts can unsettle consciousness, as it realizes what is emerging is not 'under control.' This is the time when I have had some scary existential thoughts (e.g., freedom and doubt).

Classically, a hallucination means a 'roaming thought.' Never mind sight--hallucinogenic substances can provide meandering coherence of logic for extended periods. For example, at high doses, mushrooms have allowed me to think through an idea cohesively, without losing my line of thought and without distraction, for well over an hour, together with unparallelled memory recall. To me, 'don't resist a trip' means ranting and articulating what I think and know. No doubt I am stoned; but I have a moment of sobriety. Compared to normal life, a trip can bring a few hours of profound sobriety. Stanislav Grof said that psychedelics are non-specific sub-conscious amplifiers. They bring up what is in the mind. Resisting a trip would mean opposing what is in the person's mind--no one needs to take psychedelics to repress their thoughts or emotions.

A trip can sometimes entail a moment of ego death. Embracing this momentary 'death' of consciousness can lead to a pure awareness of a broader "self." Life continues after death.

I have had to throw up and had to sit on the crapper at the same time. However, the come-down can also be very comfortable and cool:

• Observing the stucco on a roof shift in geometric flower-patterns;

• Seeing thousands of tiny diamond-colored stars sparkling in the background;

• Realizing that plants are ALIVE;

• Bathing in appreciation;

• Being amazed at serendipity.

I suggest no unexpected visitors, no obligations, no phone calls, and no emails. 

 

 

[PetarKa]

Thanks to all for the advice!

Will see what to do. First I will contemplate thoroughly.

[Inliytened1]

@PetarKa i didn't need them for enlightenment personally

[MisterMan]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:54 PM, RobertZ said:

 

• Seeing thousands of tiny diamond-colored stars sparkling in the background;

 

 

reading that alone tripped me out.

And a brilliant post.

Edited February 2, 2019 by MisterMan