Very confused about a paragraph in Eckhart Tolle's "A new earth"

[thesmileyone]

On 30/01/2019 at 5:55 AM, Jkris said:

@thesmileyone are you enlightened? Just curious to know the difference between I am having toothache and its painful and There is toothache and its painful? 

 

I wouldn't ever tell someone I am enlightened, it seems like such an egoic thing to declare to me considering there is nothing to be enlightened, the I that is typing to you right now is part of all that exists - Consciousness or whatever you choose to call it. Being part of it makes you it, therefore there cannot be a difference between you and and the most enlightened "person" you can think of. Everyone is therefore enlightened, but some configurations of Consciousness simply don't know it either at all or less than others, so they don't live from the perspective, therefore they are greedy etc.

Even calling it Consciousness is incorrect, it is formless yet parts of it (like us) have form, as it is everything. The concept of Consciousness is about as high level as the mind can think; because the mind is of form and Consciousness is formless so the mind can never truly understand it.

I guess it is like layers of an onion. Consciousness is at the centre of the onion, all other configurations of Consciousness are in the layers around it, the more a configuration knows it is Consciousness the closer the layer. Yet the whole onion is Consciousness too. So when you ask if I am enlightened, I reply no, but it could be possible that I am a layer closer to the centre than others? Or I could be delusional and be at the very outer layer. Either way it really doesn't matter because the whole onion is it...

 

That is how I understand it.

 

 

[Jkris]

@thesmileyoneIf there is a sense of me or identity one is not enlightened. If there is no sense of me one is enlightened. This is what i understand. Is it is an experience yes defenitely it is. It is not an intellectual understanding. - - Actually this helps kind of simple explanation helps a seeker and put him out of unnecessary confusions of what enlightenment is. Offcourse what it means to be living with out an identity or sense of me has to be experienced by the seeker and know what it means enlightenment is. Imo There is nothing wrong in saying to a seeker yes i am enlightened and sharing the experiences or path practice difficulties one faced in the path. If the masters kept quiet with out saying anything about enlightenment or self realization the rest of the people would never had a chance to know who they are or what is reality. 

 

[thesmileyone]

I agree. I know Dan Ingram calls himself "The Arahant" which is as enlightened as you can get in buddhism (all 10 fetters ceased), however he mentions that he deliberated over the title for a long time, in the end just calling himself that for reference so that people take his teachings seriously. The problem is, in his own words; a lot of people won't read the book BECAUSE he calls himself that title.

I find his book(s) too complex to understand; much of the higher path is experiential and it is very difficult to write about experiences because it transcends the limit of human language. On top of that different people interpret words differently. I think this is why Ramana said "be silent and let me work!" or something similar.

[Paul92]

@Leo Gura

On 29/01/2019 at 11:17 PM, Leo Gura said:

He wasn't talking about awake people. He was talking about inwardly-oriented people.

Research shows that about half of heroin addicts and alcoholics are people in search of awakening, but not knowing that what they seek is God, they find a pseudo-God in the heroin or alcohol.

So what Tolle is saying is that.

Like that pseudo-God you find by shoving mushrooms up your arsehole? It's the same fucking thing. Also, why doesn't say, a carrot, help us attain a high state of consciousness, if that is where we are meant to be. 

I think Leo just had an unfortunate childhood. In fact, I know he did. 

I wouldn't trust Tolle as far as I could throw him. Convenient how he turned his depression into a multi million dollar frenzy, swallowed by people who are struggling a bit. 

He did say that one of the Buddhist masters once ate 10 LSD pills. And he never flinched. Then watch Leo's enlightenment live video... Hmmmm. Which one is full of shit. 

I'm done. 

[thesmileyone]

The thing is, Tolle was exactly right about being in the present moment.

When you are living from future or past, you are living from the mind.

Tolle also put his millions into spreading his books far and wide. He has sold so many that you can find them for 29p in bargain book stores... = more potential readers = more potential awakenings. You wouldn't believe the amount of people I have met who aren't remotely what we would call spiritual, yet have read and gained insight from his books.

 

The power of now did nothing for me but A New Earth gave me quite a huge shift back in the day.

Edited January 31, 2019 by thesmileyone
typo

[Highest]

Why would this world be too painful to live in, after awakening to the truth?

The truth is that life goes on even after awakening, life evolves forever. Those who resist suffer, those who surrender to what is, they will come out and back whole and complete. Life is suffering, awakening will not take that away. The ego and the mind is there to assure you of that. It's in total surrender that suffering ends, the surrender to the Self/awarness/God/life/insert name. Pain is always there, suffering however can end. There is no need to suffer, just know what you are and stay as what you are. 

[Enlightenment]

On 29.01.2019 at 10:20 PM, traveler said:

Enlightenment, which is supposed to be "the end of suffering" in Buddhas words, lead to this.

Enlightenment is not the end of all suffering, Nibbana is.

[mandyjw]

I think Leo's answer is correct. I've listened to hours of Tolle, read all his books and he has said similar things multiple times and never refers to spiritually awakened people abusing drugs but rather the general population. 

However, I also wonder about how Alan Watts drank himself to death. Most of us can only be awake in the moment, permanent awakening is after all only a concept of the mind and awakening in its essence is not of the mind so the two cannot meet. You can definitely be both awakened and addicted. If you are the universe and the universe contains addicted people, you're also addicted yourself.