Empathy: Green seeking to understand Blue

[RobertZ]

Hello,

I would like to discuss a bit about empathy. First, I would like to summarize a few points that some other people around have made (excuse the plagiarism), and then indulge in a bit of speculation:

• Empathy has neurological correlates. Mirror neurons reflect the feelings of other people. These feelings are malleable and adaptable, but mirror neurons may be quantitatively limited. Biological limits may be nuanced by complex genetic interactions [or neuroplasticity?].

• In general, empathy involves knowledge of another person’s point of view. It is an ability to relate to another person's thoughts, feelings, or ideas. Feeling what another person feels taps into our inherent unity. Empathy can delve into the sea of human consciousness. 

• Empathy is a sensitive cognitive recognition, and a vulnerable affective contagion. Empathy can bring pleasurable connections with attractive people and avoid help us to repulsive threats (broad engagement with reality is a point I want to explore further).

• Spiral Dynamics Turquoise empathy interacts with all of reality, while Green is focused on consensus community. Sitting with someone who has a lower level of awareness—and really 'getting' them—can give rise to potentially disruptive energy dynamics. Two individuals in a dysfunctional relationship might need more profound emotional self-reliance, rather than more empathy. 

Thanks for sharing this information and fascinating thoughts!

———

To me, empathy seems to have a weakness: it can be vulnerable to brainwashing. Empathy is highly suggestible. It lacks some of the conclusive rigours that worst-case scenario thinking maintains. For example, one of the ways that empathy can get misguided is by projecting fear of suffering. I see another person suffering, and I feel very overwhelmed by fear and sadness. Thus, empathy can misguide a person to think that, 'If I put in my vicarious dues of suffering to the gods of vindictiveness, then maybe I won’t have to suffer later? Empathy might not be as sensitive to ugliness and violence as it assumes; it is tempted by scapegoating also. Empathy is not a magic pill, silver bullet, or panacea. It is also not a weapon against close-mindedness.

Deep sensitivity, perception, and openness to the subtleties of human experience may lead to in-depth meetings of inner thoughts and transformative communications. Entering into the depths of human consciousness, and becoming a witness together with another person: at that level, it almost does not matter who is who—or whose experience we are communicating about.

On the other hand, Charity (stage blue truth-force) is benevolent. It is generous. It is categorically concise. It has authorities, absolute rules, and it makes principled exceptions…sometimes. The difficulty with categorical thought is when it fails to listen to the realities of people’s lives. Of course, it can also get quite apocalyptic. There is a dynamic tension between stage green empathy and stage blue categorical logic. Empathy balances the blind-spots of “the law of love.” 

As an aside, utilitarianism can be very merciful. So what really happens when you break the rules? Nothing that bad, apparently.

I am excited to join in this forum and read about your many amazing thoughts and projects!

[Leo Gura]

So what's your question?

Stage Blue charity is not very inclusive and often just a trick of the ego-mind to make itself feel righteous and moral.

Stage Green empathy is more powerful, although still not completely selfless.

What you're really talking about is Love. Your capacity to love will increase the higher you go up the Spiral, the more developed and conscious you are.

True Love is not really possible without awakening, which is beyond the Spiral entirely.

The obstacle to Love is self.

[TheAvatarState]

@RobertZ  I was raised in a mostly blue environment. What you have to understand and accept is that blue people are incapable of love. They feed off of fragmentation, and are thus incapable of actual love. Love freaks them out!

It's actually quite easy (from a higher perspective) to have empathy for them. Not pity, of course, but empathy. If you try to show it though, they'll throw up walls.  

[Wyze]

4 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

blue people are incapable of love. They feed off of fragmentation, and are thus incapable of actual love. Love freaks them out!

Can you explain what you meant by fragmentation?

[TheAvatarState]

@Wyze Fragmentation is the work of the ego to separate itself. Distinguish itself. Label itself. Cut itself off from love. Trapping itself in customs, traditions, laws, etiquette, conduct, and other Blue values. The mental barriers and self-deceptions are so apparent when you're around Blue people. It's kind of hard to explain, but Blue people are basically incapable of love because of all the fragmentation. The love they experience is still very much in a box and highly conditional.

Edited January 29, 2019 by TheAvatarState

[Wyze]

@TheAvatarState Sounds like a conformists and conditional love. eg "I will love you if you get a $100k job?"

Its interesting; I once had a person in their 60s who told me "There is no such things as unconditional love."

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Wyze said:

I once had a person in their 60s who told me "There is no such things as unconditional love."

That's totally true from the ego's POV.

[TheAvatarState]

8 minutes ago, Wyze said:

@TheAvatarState Sounds like a conformists and conditional love. eg "I will love you if you get a $100k job?"

Its interesting; I once had a person in their 60s who told me "There is no such things as unconditional love."

Yes, that's true until you get to Turquoise, and even then, we're still human and remnants of fragmentation will still show. 

While money could be a deciding factor for many people in blue/orange, what really throws them off their rocker is breaking or undermining their VALUES. It's like a fucking stab in the heart if you go against their religion, customs, ethnocentrism, patriotism, etc. Blue parents literally disown their children for that stuff. 

[RobertZ]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So what's your question?

...

What you're really talking about is Love. Your capacity to love will increase the higher you go up the Spiral, the more developed and conscious you are.

True Love is not really possible without awakening...

I guess my question is how to increase empathy--or yes, love, consciousness, and awakening--without falling prey to fear?

I feel that something in me is stuck. I want to open myself to Truth--without presuming that I already know the Truth. Then, I experience fear and doubt--even projection and scapegoating (e.g., mushroom trips devolving into paranoia). How to be less selfish?

[Forestluv]

@RobertZ There seems to be a lot of intellectualizing in the original post.  My hunch is that you feel safer in your head than in your heart. It can bea long journey from one's head to their heart. For me, direct experience was the key to open heart channels of empathy ♥️ ?