If reality is "perfect" then what are its metrics, values, and visions?

[TheAvatarState]

It became obvious to me that for reality to be "perfect," it (consciousness, infinite intelligence) must be sculpting reality based on what is deems to be "perfect." And this notion of perfect would have to be based on certain metrics and values.

Reality COULD be a multitude of other ways, but it is THIS way. There must be a reason, right? I get this intuitive sense (and seeing it all around me) that there is higher purpose and vision. We're all conducted. We all develop along certain lines (spiral dynamics). I could go on and on...

What I'd like to open for discussion is: what possibly could be this higher vision? What is reality evolving towards?? 

[Arhattobe]

Is massive suffering perfect? Cmon son.

Realities perfection is in its ability to grow. To create ego out of less developed forms of conscious experience.

To evolve and eventually transcend that ego.

The simplistic non dual thoughts of today are just dumb.

The Buddha “life is suffering”

Random forum dude on drugs “everything is perfect, that’s why I have deep traumas, unresolved issues, anger and desperately try to escape all the time from the simple realities in front of me”

Edited January 28, 2019 by Arhattobe

[TheAvatarState]

1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

Random forum dude on drugs “everything is perfect, that’s why I have deep traumas, unresolved issues, anger and desperately try to escape all the time from the simple realities in front of me”

Cool story bro.

I am entertaining an idea that Leo has mentioned several times. Life is suffering for most people, yes, but the ability to transcend suffering is baked into it; in fact something we are leaning towards as society evolves. That "life is suffering" is not antithetical to "reality is perfect."

[Arhattobe]

I wasnt singling you out btw. Sorry if I was harsh a bit.

Just trying to make my point by appealing to emotions a bit. My point stands though.

[AlwaysBeNice]

The Buddha said, 1st noble truth, 'There is suffering (or unsatisfaction)', not that all of it is suffering, and that there is an end to suffering, 4th noble truth.

Coincidentally, in Hindiusm, there is beyond sleep-dream-and waking, the 4th state, turiya.

Whether the estimable state of turiya, true jnana [knowledge], is described either as ‘the excellent sleep totally devoid of waking’ or as ‘the unique and unceasing waking that has nothing to do with forgetful sleep’, you should know that both descriptions are entirely appropriate.'

'It is not the same as sleep or waking separately. It is atijagrat [beyond wakefulness] or atisushupti [beyond sleep]. It is the state of perfect awareness and perfect stillness combined.'

- Ramana Maharshi

[Arhattobe]

@AlwaysBeNice The Buddha said other stuff to. The problem is oversimplification of reality, and lack of nuance that lead to fantastical ideas, reality, self deciet and dishonesty

[Nahm]

@TheAvatarState First see what you are, where you came from, where you’ll go ultimately. Then “reality”. 

[DrewNows]

“If reality is “perfect” then what are its metrics values and visions? 

Whatever you want them to be whether you’re conscious of this or not 

it’s anything everything and nothing 

[now is forever]

8 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

“If reality is “perfect” then what are its metrics values and visions? 

Whatever you want them to be whether you’re conscious of this or not 

it’s anything everything and nothing 

in a sense i would agree - but there is also perfection that guides you to acceptance and letting go. it’s the imperfect perfection or the perfect imperfect - the always changing, the trace of time, the trace of touch, the trace of  life in life.

[Shadowraix]

If you consider infinity then you discover reality could be no other way. 

[Leo Gura]

Don't confuse ordinary notions of "perfect" with transcendental Perfection.

Reality isn't perfect, it's Perfect. Perfect with a capital P is an Absolute. It does not depend on any metrics, values, or standards. It's Infinite Perfection -- perfection without a standard.

In the Absolute sense, reality is not evolving towards anything. It is and always has been an eternal infinite singularity. Evolution is only a illusion of the ego-mind's linear, temporal, causal way of looking at the world. Evolution is relative.

[TheAvatarState]

@Leo Gura You say that everything that happens is Good. That is to admit it's Perfect because there is a higher intelligence at work. And yet you deny that there could be any metrics or values that this intelligence is working with? To work on anything with intelligence, you must use all the tools at your disposal to create an outcome you deem as "best," which is based on relative metrics and values. Hypothetically speaking, imagine if this universe used its infinite intelligence to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible; i.e. if the universe was infinitely hating. We would live in a very different world, wouldn't we? If we existed at all, we'd just spiral out of control and the human race would wipe itself out. That is not the reality we're in, however. Isn't it obvious that this infinite intelligence must have relative values to guide itself? Why is Love an irreducible facet of reality? And you can't say "it couldn't be any other way" because it obviously could be a radically different way. 

If Perfect is an absolute, then that doesn't mean anything does it? Isn't that basically saying "it is what it is, and that's why it's Perfect?" Isn't that a kind of circular reasoning?

This doesn't seem to be the case at all. Consider all the phenomena of "divine intervention." My understanding of why these things occur changes all the time (recontextualized), but the phenomena are still there. THERE IS a force that pulls us in certain directions... Reality isn't left to its own devices! It is intelligent and sculpts how we learn and grow. It's beautiful!

There are forces baked into this singularity. What are they?

  

[Leo Gura]

@TheAvatarState You speak of things you have not experienced.

Mu

[TheAvatarState]

@Leo Gura Fair enough.

[tsuki]

Perfection is not a statement about reality's moral value, but about its completeness.

[Shadowraix]

@TheAvatarState Consider that infinite intelligence transcends all need for any metric or standards.