Martin ball and his insomnia

[Jack River]

I'm not sure what you mean by growth here. Im simply referring to learning/observing ‘experiencing’. 

2 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Jack River no idea is an idea to most people unless they have awakened. I don’t understand why you aren’t getting that. It’s a bit odd.

Sure, that happens, that is why exploring the nature of experience/thought has its value. 

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, Shin said:

 

Sadly,

Never.

 

 

Funny... This is exactly the video I thought about too... guess this is the ”Zen-shtick” where they beat you with a shtick to awaken you

[Jack River]

@Arhattobe I started with subject/object thought/experience first my self through observing. 

[Salvijus]

It's painful to watch but 90% of things that are said here are totally pointless. Somebody said something irrelevent and all the attention got diverted there. Just to avaid questioning the real benefit of psychedelics. They started questioning who's the devil...

What was suppossed to be an joyful insight and perspective and new ways of looking into psychedelics turned into pointless anger about something. Nobody even understands what they're fighting about 

We're all on the same page here ?

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Salvijus

[luckieluuke]

@Salvijus  No no, i´ve got a much better idea: lets divide actualized.org into those who thinks psychedelics are good for spiritual work and those who don´t. 
That way we can feel better about ourselves cause each group can say that they are better than the "other". It´s like a win win deal folks! ;-) 
+ we don´t need to do any hard work anymore, just loose ourselves in one upping the other group. It would be awesome if we could make some kind of crusades as well.

[now is forever]

in german there is a word for the state of mind that remains stuck in the altered state of a psychedelic awareness.

„hängenbleiben“ it has a meaning like when the picture on a screen freezes.

if the belief you engrave in your metaphysics interferes so much you can’t set it close to reality anymore. you are downloading or uploading behavioral elements that cloud your view - but as the mind is not able to take control without the substance - well...

that‘s why there are a lot of gurus who teach enlightenment without substances.

that’s also why psychedelics can’t be the holy grail.

not saying that they are not mindopening for a wood head but i would also not mess around with these things, they are shamanic powerful tools and not for everyday.

it‘s equally trying to play god to mess with god.

Edited January 29, 2019 by now is forever

[luckieluuke]

@now is forever Who said psychedelics are the holy grail? who are you trying to convince?

[now is forever]

well i‘m just trying to point to the problem of making psychedelics a cult as soon as people get swayed by them. the over use of drugs are always a cult if not an addiction.

as holy as we want to make them, they have huge, enormous shadowsides - and it takes a lot of selfcontrol to use psychedelics in a responsible manner.

let‘s pray to the big toad instead of the cow. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by now is forever

[Forestluv]

47 minutes ago, now is forever said:

in german there is a word for the state of mind that remains stuck in the altered state of a psychedelic awareness.

„hängenbleiben“ it has a meaning like when the picture on a screen freezes.

if the belief you engrave in your metaphysics interferes so much you can’t set it close to reality anymore. you are downloading or uploading behavioral elements that cloud your view - but as the mind is not able to take control without the substance - well...

that‘s why there are a lot of gurus who teach enlightenment without substances.

that’s also why psychedelics can’t be the holy grail.

not saying that they are not mindopening for a wood head but i would also not mess around with these things, they are shamanic powerful tools and not for everyday.

it‘s equally trying to play god to mess with god.

This assumes an egoic sober mind state is more real than a psychedelic mind state. 

[now is forever]

@Serotoninluv no i‘m not saying that - i just know people who where heavily addicted. and i have enough experiences with group dynamics in the drug field.

it is about the ability to get happy with your life without drugs - if you can’t it’s a sign that points to the codependency to a substance. what makes a person controlled by the substance and not by conciousness.

and i guess in terms of enlightenment that’s not really it, as the goal is to achieve something else than that.

in terms of maya - it’s either way just a different maya. it doesn’t say anything about the grade of delusion. it just says something about religion/spirituality and how much we confuse a substance that is a pathopener with it.

if you get a kink in the matrix you can still be aware of the kink - people who have it know often that they have it.

Edited January 29, 2019 by now is forever

[Jack River]

A mind in motion within its conditioned groove/pattern will always move towards or away from the silence. 

With this is an unending progression/continuity away from The Unnameable. 

 

[FreeThoughtFlow]

If I were to guesd what is happening I would think his ego has regured and hes having troubles deling with the true natur of his existence. 

In other words hes experiencing ego death when he's sleeping and he struggling against it.

Edited January 29, 2019 by FreeThoughtFlow

[Forestluv]

@now is forever To me, your description of the german quote had an underlying suggestion. 

I spent many years working within alcohol and drug addiction. I find it to be a complex and nuanced area. I’d consider psychedelics to have relatively low addiction potential. 

[now is forever]

@Serotoninluv yes i find that, too. i was just answering to the original post and played the devil. if you feel triggered you might need to think about it, why.

the term is a term drug users invented. in 2000 i experienced a whole summer in this state due to lsd.

i spoke of codependency to reach enlightenment. an that it’s a thin ridge to walk this path.

Edited January 29, 2019 by now is forever

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@Serotoninluv yes i find that, too. i was just answering to the original post and played the devil. if you feel triggered you might need to think about it, why.

the term is a term drug users invented.

I’m just sharing observations. 

[now is forever]

@Serotoninluv yes, me too. we all share just observations.

Edited January 29, 2019 by now is forever

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

6 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

@Leo Gura let’s not. Let’s not resort to personal attacks and talk down to those that disagree. Let’s not just dismiss everything as ego and devilry. Let’s have a balanced approach.

@Arhattobe  not sure if you are enlightened or not, i really don't care... But i agree with you... I've been following Leo for years now but it seems that people cannot have a different opinion because him or his followers come back with things like "you are a devil", "health and sickness are a duality and illusion" or something along those lines. I've been smelling this from some time now but it's becoming more and more obvious... Still, there are some good people here. Wish the best for the community and I hope there is light at the end of the tunnel. It just seems that everything involving these type of conversations often derail to ideology, personal attacks and nonsense. Thank you and @Serotoninluv for your contributions on this thread 

[Arhattobe]

@Juan Cruz Giusto ❣️

[eleveneleven]

This thread is dumb.

One guy says, "Look at this person who used psychedelics in a really extreme way and is having hella ego backlash. This obviously means that all psychedelic use is bad!"

Then other people who are like, "You are not awakened."

"No, I'm more awake than you."

"No I am!"

Can we all just take a more nuanced approach for God's sake? Psychedelics totally work. You only have to take them and experience them for yourself to see that they do. However, their effects (just like other spiritual technologies) can come on very fast if you're too extreme with them, and your ego might not be able to integrate what you experienced in that case.

But this isn't unique to psychedelics. This happened to a friend of mine who was using several spiritual technologies at once (none of them psychedelic at the time) and had a very intense, even traumatizing experience that still marks him to this day. His ego was not prepared.

You don't have to use psychedelics to work on your spiritual growth, but they are an option, especially if you're someone who has trouble getting into certain states, and without an entheogen you may have never even known what was possible. I think people are just biased against them because they are "artificial," but that's just a concept, a social construct. Whether you're meditating or taking mushrooms or whatever, it's all part of one singular reality. The mushrooms, or 5-MEO, or LSD or whatever are just as much a part of your brain as your brain is.

Edited January 29, 2019 by eleveneleven

[allislove]

to add more noise here..
(stolen from the jokes thread)