Martin ball and his insomnia

[EvilAngel]

@Whatever Thankyou!

[Whatever]

19 minutes ago, EvilAngel said:

@Whatever Thankyou!

No problemo! 

[hundreth]

2 hours ago, Tony 845 said:

@hundreth now look we are all looking for "enlightenment" so if he's enlightened why is he still suffering? Let me guess the rabbit hole of enlightenment goes deep & he's not at the deeepst stages??? Just wondering is all? 

Depends on your definition of enlightenment. There's enlightenment and liberation, I believe they are different. He could have witnessed the absolute, he may understand it very well. On the other hand, he might not be completely liberated. Is anyone? He's human. He's vulnerable like the rest of us. I felt like I had an understanding which would shield me from a lot of pain, and then life punched me in the face and I was completely unprepared. 

Life has ups and downs, it's part of being human. I wouldn't expect a complete cessation of suffering. I feel we are training ourselves how best to accept what comes our way. Seems like he's starting to accept what's happening to him. It's much easier said than done.

[DrewNows]

@hundreth@WhateverEnlightenment or liberation may be known by someone but it goes deeper than the human condition. This is where one’s idea of enlightenment can start to become a detriment to their personal journey and realization  

EVERYONE is liberated/enlightened but not everyone is conscious of it 

[Girzo]

I believe his condition might be heavily influenced by the use of psychedelics. Martin has been using vaporization route and enormous doses, which is far from typical usage, so no wonder he experiences drastic side-effects. This plus personal predispositions.

[Leo Gura]

Be careful speculating about people's health issues, especially when you do not know them. It's very easy to judge someone's health condition without being in their shoes.

[Tetcher]

@Arhattobe wait source ? Is he going through these issues now or in the past ?

Edit : it seems it's on his Facebook too bad I don't use this. That's a big new for me as I always took him as a proof that 5meoDmt might be a legit tool. Shows that having fancy experiences and insights doesn't necessarily involve mastery or ultimate well being. I read similar things on erowid that long term 5meodmt users started having trouble breathing. It's like all fun, feeling powerful with access to truth until your system starts dysfunctioning at a level you weren't even aware of.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Tetcher

[Leo Gura]

@Tetcher Nothing involves ultimate well-being. Ramana Maharshi got cancer and died. So what? He was still enlightened as fuck.

Stop conflating enlightenment or consciousness with invincibility.

If you think you're not gonna have health problems in life, you're in for a rude awakening.

[Whatever]

2 hours ago, Tetcher said:

@Arhattobe wait source ? Is he going through these issues now or in the past ?

Edit : it seems it's on his Facebook too bad I don't use this. That's a big new for me as I always took him as a proof that 5meoDmt might be a legit tool. Shows that having fancy experiences and insights doesn't necessarily involve mastery or ultimate well being. I read similar things on erowid that long term 5meodmt users started having trouble breathing. It's like all fun, feeling powerful with access to truth until your system starts dysfunctioning at a level you weren't even aware of.

 

I think its very healthy to question this. There is extremely strong confirmation bias around 5meo in this forum and for Leo and others it would be a huge scary move to admit that it isnt as effective as assumed and can lead to shit ton of issues (not basing this only on Martin but to friends who has had horrible time after using it) . As far as I know Martin Ball was only one who was enlightened via 5meo use and honestly looks more likely that he was in weird, convincing psychedelic state instead.

[Arhattobe]

@Leo Gura Do you honestly not see the point? You can disagree but it’s seems you didn’t even hear the point. 

3 months of dmt visuals on a constant basis, deepening of the voice when talking about truth, and hearing voices in one’s heart, among numerous other symptoms like a lack of sleep for 1 week. Are all very extreme. 

Attributing these extreme events to copious amounts of 5 meo and psychedelic use is not far fetched. Nor is the claim that severely altering your state on a regular basis with psychedelics might not be the healthiest thing to do.

Especially considering the amount of disorders and issues people have. 

 

[Rilles]

Outward projection. Go do your work instead of worrying about someone you dont know.

[Whatever]

34 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Outward projection. Go do your work instead of worrying about someone you dont know.

 

I could tell you the same thing.

Lot of conversations here seems to be about one upping the latest poster with non dual copout and pretend you have clear view instead of doing any honest reflection on issue at hand.

Like what did this comment from you contribute to this conversation? And why was it worth saying instead of walking the walk yourself? 

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, Whatever said:

 

I could tell you the same thing.

Lot of conversations here seems to be about one upping the latest poster with non dual copout and pretend you have clear view instead of doing any honest reflection on issue at hand.

Like what did this comment from you contribute to this conversation? And why was it worth saying instead of walking the walk yourself? 

There is a time to talk and a time to be silent. I think Martin Ball will be fine without someone on a forum pretending he knows something about him.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Rilles

[Salvijus]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Tetcher Nothing involves ultimate well-being. Ramana Maharshi got cancer and died. So what? He was still enlightened as fuck.

 

But he died in absolute bliss and exstacy. You will never hear him complaining about omg I'm so sad. God please remove this cancer. No his body was infested with worms - he didn't care. He got cancer - he sat still in blissfulness. 

He could be burning on fire and still be at ultimate wellbeing inside because he had no identity with his body. In his experience it was not even happening to him. That's what I consider an enlightened Being.

Martin is nowhere near such experience. He calls himself the god of the universe but he's complaining about mosquito bites.

Edit: sorry i mixed the Maharshi with another indian advaita master who also had cancer.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

3 months of dmt visuals on a constant basis, deepening of the voice when talking about truth, and hearing voices in one’s heart, among numerous other symptoms like a lack of sleep for 1 week. Are all very extreme. 

That's not extreme for a person who's awakening.

All of the above are typical and to be expected if you're getting serious about spirituality. In fact, that's sort of the point of doing spirituality.

That kind of stuff is not unique to psychedelics. You can get that from yoga, meditation retreats, self-inquiry, etc.

Do you want results or not?

Awakening is a radical process.

[Arhattobe]

@Leo Gura

I awakened without psychedelics, then did psychedelics and understand the affects in can have on ones system. 

Equating Martin balls awakening to other awakenings eg adyashantis and others. Simply comes from a lack of understanding, and information. 

His clearly stands out and is way less stable and sane in many ways.

Awakening might be a radical process but there is no reason to make it more radical to the point of frying ones system and possibly losing one’s sanity.

A balanced approach is always best.

[luckieluuke]

 

Rupert spiras beautiful video on how he never sleeps in the same way as "normal people":

But from my own experiences with psychedilcs im leaning towards @Arhattobe idea. I do think an unawakened mind interpret psychedelic experiences and twists them....
Really interested to hear your experiences with psychedelics. especially if you have had them earlier in life when not awakened and the difference?

Edited January 29, 2019 by luckieluuke

[Arhattobe]

@luckieluuke it’s ridcilous of you to equate Rupert talking about what I assume is maintaining awareness through out sleep to Martin ball not physically being able to sleep and the exhaustion that come with it. 

 

[luckieluuke]

@Arhattobe Im not drawing any conclusions but I do see a possibility that Martin might have had an awakening experience rushed on by psychedlics, one he was not ready for. Like in many cases psychedilcs can be a catalyst of stuff. If that would be the case then he might experience no sleep like if he was awakened but he is not so he suffers from it. Just an idea to contribute to the topic and I dont think its ridiculous  

Please explain why its ridiculous, Im not very far down my awakening path and you say you are so you might know better. Please enlighten me

Edited January 29, 2019 by luckieluuke

[Arhattobe]

@luckieluuke I didn’t see the additional paragraph and wrote my rely before your edit. With the additional paragraph and ideas I don’t think it’s redicilous. I still disagree but cool ?❣️