The Case for Eating Meat

[SgtPepper]

From a health perspective, eating meat/fish is fine and its good for you because it has vitamins that you need and cannot get from plants.

From a spiritual perspective: life is eating life. Plants are life too, you are inevitably eating or killing life no matter where you go. Every moment is life and death. 

we have to at least agree on some subjective standards too or else we'll never reach a collective conclusion.. I've seen people here claim that meat is somehow unhealthy (with no links), that killing an animal is equal to killing a human being, and that we are comparable to chimps.

none of which are true to me. And saying that eating meat is unnecessary, yet vegetarian and vegans are all recommended to take supplements? Many vegans experience iron and b12 deficiency.

Vegans claim it is the ultimate diet that humans are meant to evolve to, yet I know people who are allergic to nuts, various fruits, or cannot eat raw vegetables. All of these individuals can drink milk, eat meat, butter, and cheese though.

And someone compared strawberries to a cow. My dude, if you survived on only strawberries, you'd be hungry for that cow in less than a week. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by SgtPepper

[Matt8800]

19 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

From a health perspective, eating meat/fish is fine and its good for you because it has vitamins that you need and cannot get from plants.

From a spiritual perspective: life is eating life. Plants are life too, you are inevitably eating or killing life no matter where you go. Every moment is life and death. 

we have to at least agree on some subjective standards too or else we'll never reach a collective conclusion.. I've seen people here claim that meat is somehow unhealthy (with no links), that killing an animal is equal to killing a human being, and that we are comparable to chimps.

none of which are true to me. And saying that eating meat is unnecessary, yet vegetarian and vegans are all recommended to take supplements? Many vegans experience iron and b12 deficiency.

Vegans claim it is the ultimate diet that humans are meant to evolve to, yet I know people who are allergic to nuts, various fruits, or cannot eat raw vegetables. All of these individuals can drink milk, eat meat, butter, and cheese though.

And someone compared strawberries to a cow. My dude, if you survived on only strawberries, you'd be hungry for that cow in less than a week. 

Well said....

[alankrillin]

25 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

From a health perspective, eating meat/fish is fine and its good for you because it has vitamins that you need and cannot get from plants.

From a spiritual perspective: life is eating life. Plants are life too, you are inevitably eating or killing life no matter where you go. Every moment is life and death. 

we have to at least agree on some subjective standards too or else we'll never reach a collective conclusion.. I've seen people here claim that meat is somehow unhealthy (with no links), that killing an animal is equal to killing a human being, and that we are comparable to chimps.

none of which are true to me. And saying that eating meat is unnecessary, yet vegetarian and vegans are all recommended to take supplements? Many vegans experience iron and b12 deficiency.

Vegans claim it is the ultimate diet that humans are meant to evolve to, yet I know people who are allergic to nuts, various fruits, or cannot eat raw vegetables. All of these individuals can drink milk, eat meat, butter, and cheese though.

And someone compared strawberries to a cow. My dude, if you survived on only strawberries, you'd be hungry for that cow in less than a week. 

I did post links and I even posted images from cancer research NHS UK.

We do have an ancestor to apes and for have 94% Dna match to apes.  You do know what facts are right?

Why is it crazy to think we are related to apes?

Why are you bending the truth?

6 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

Well said....

Nice debate,  you high five the very moment someone supports your claims. And argue with every person who doesn't.

This isn't a discussion thread it's just a troll thread. 

Good luck.

And I say this as a occasional meat eater.

 

[SgtPepper]

9 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

I did post links and I even posted images from cancer research NHS UK.

We do have an ancestor to apes and for have 94% Dna match to apes.  You do know what facts are right?

Why is it crazy to think we are related to apes?

Why are you bending the truth?

Nice debate,  you high five the very moment someone supports your claims. And argue with every person who doesn't.

This isn't a discussion thread it's just a troll thread. 

Good luck.

And I say this as a occasional meat eater.

 

Hello @alankrillin 

I am not denying that we share genetic traits to apes. I agree 100% and monkeys/gorillas are my favorite animals to see at the zoo. however as humans we are still radically different for various reasons.

1. I'll start by saying that hunting and eating meat played an important in our brain development, here is one link that support this hypothesis.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2008/04/eating-meat-led-to-smaller-stomachs-bigger-brains/

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/03/30/why-humans-started-eating-meat-critical-diet/

That's not to say that cooking foods or eating carbohydrates like potatoes were not factors, they were but hunting also played a key factor. 

2. Im curious as to which ape you find we resemble the most? If we take for instance a gorilla, a gorilla has a different digestive system than a human, so I do not think its fair to compare our diets with the goal of reaching optimal health because we are built differently. 

"The primary difference of the digestive system between gorillas and humans is found in the gastrointestinal tract. Gorillas are herbivores so they need to be able to break down cellulose. Gorillas are known to be colon fermenters, which is defined as the anaerobic breakdown of organic compounds. Gorillas have large colons and the large intestine is filled with microbes (bacterial) and enzymes indigenous to the colon of the host, which destroy pathogenic microorganisms that are harmful to the host. Within gorillas it is believed that these bacteria serve the purpose of fermenting, detoxifying food, and breaking down cellulose (Stevens and Hume, 1995)."

3. Not to mention that Humans have cognitive and athletic abilities that is radically different than apes and vice versa. 

I am curious to see that UK cancer study you're talking about. I did not see it in this thread ; however I have yet to see a study that looks at healthy high quality meat and its effect on healthy people. When I say high quality meat, I mean grass fed, no antibiotics are used, pretty much the animals are eating their natural diet and humans are raising them in a healthy fashion. 

Processed meat has been linked to cancer and I avoid processed meat. 

 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Matt8800 said:

(Sigh)...Ill try to explain again.

Rape, murder, stealing, manipulation = suffering in conscious experience. Even if murder of a human was painless, their destiny may have been movement towards realization and that should not be interfered with.

Killing an animal instantly for food = no suffering

You insist that your subjective morality is objective. Now you are saying it is OK for Nisgardatta and Tolle because they dont "justify" it? Do you feel that actions are bad if the perpetrator justifies it but is a non-issue if it is not justified? Ive never heard that reasoning before but ok

For people that dwell in non-duality, there is no such thing as justification. Who is justifying and to whom?

To be clear, I am extremely sensitive to an animal's suffering. I have always had a great love for animals and still do.

You're not really understanding what a Zen devil is and why people are telling you that you're being one.

I do personally believe that it doesn't make sense to eat meat because it causes needless suffering to sentient beings. And I do believe that animals suffer unlike you who doesn't believe that animals suffer. But you state your belief in the idea "killing animals instantly for food = no suffering" as though it's a fact... when it's really just an assumption based in no evidence what-so-ever.

But eating meat isn't Zen devilry in and of itself. Zen devilry is the use of mental gymnastics relative to canned insights about non-duality to justify all behavior that falls into the realm of self-interest regardless of consequence to others.

So, I do think Eckhart Tolle is contributing to suffering when he eats meat. But I don't think he's being a Zen devil, and using a canned mind-based understanding of non-duality to justify eating meat for his own self-interest like you are.

So, I would consider Eckhart Tolle's meat consumption to be a problem that he would be wisest to refrain from. But he's probably not jumping through hoops in his own mind to make himself unconscious so that he can prop up an identity of "righteousness" while actively doing things that needlessly encroach upon others' lives. 

That's the difference between simply doing actions that cause suffering and Zen devilry. So, they're both problems on the relative level, but they have different causes.

In order to avoid being a Zen devil, don't use absolute truths invalidate relative truths. This will make you very unconscious indeed.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Emerald

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, SgtPepper said:

From a health perspective, eating meat/fish is fine and its good for you because it has vitamins that you need and cannot get from plants.

Which vitamins can you not get from plants/tubers/nuts/seeds that you can get from fish? 

I'm pretty well-versed on nutrition, and the only thing you can't get from plants is B-12.

But the only reason why is because B-12 comes from dirt and human beings eat a diet that's free from dirt because we wash our fruits and veggies extensively in modern day. And all animals only get their B-12 from the dirt as well. So, this is why we get B-12 when we eat them. 

Other than that, you can get every essential vitamin, minerals, or amino acid from plants.