How do I know if anyone else is conscious?

[TheAvatarState]

I had some thoughts on this topic, and I'm kind of uneasy about it. I hope you can help me clear this up.

 

Can I prove that I am conscious? No, as there is no one else to prove it TO. Proof is an untenable notion, as it implies a subject- object duality with which you're trying to prove using only subjective experience. Therefore, you can prove that proof cannot be proven universally, but only from a certain perspective. There's nothing I could possibly prove TO YOU, and as such, you or I shouldn't blindly trust anything. Learn to weed out Bullshit to give yourself better sources, of course. 

OK then, but I am conscious! Yes! In my direct experience, I am that which is aware of the experience. However, I can't prove that I'm conscious using external phenomena. This also means I can't prove anyone else to be conscious, as their notion of Consciousness would be predecated upon my first person experience, my consciousness. Is it a self-deception to assume that because I am conscious, that means everyone else is also conscious? How do I know for sure that everyone else is not a figment of my imagination? 

If I am conscious, shouldn't that mean that every other creature I perceive to be conscious is also conscious? Even the "figment" would still be an entity that's aware of itself, solely based on the fact that I am conscious of it. In a matrix style setup where I am the only inlet of Consciousness, everything else is a program or a form created by me... You'd still run into the same epistemic problems, that is, if you thought of this reality as "existing on a computer." 

In VR, the person playing is conscious. He cannot point to the illusion and say, "This VR body is producing consciousness." The scenario is fundamentally the same, just that we know it to be a layer deeper. We are that which is aware. That ever-present, background consciousness is all that exists, in either case. So, how many levels there are is completely irrelevant. We could be millions of levels "down" and still not be out of touch with consciousness. Infinite levels, infinite realities.

What if earth was just a giant VR MMO, or a singular experiment? 

So what I'm asking is: how does infinite intelligence work? How do we know whether we're in a connected, unified consciousness like Leo suggests, or if each of us is in a VR game (just a metaphor) where we're the only point of Consciousness? Because we can't rule that possibility out... 

 

[DrewNows]

You are the infinite, you aren’t a part of the infinite. Just my understanding. Everything and everyone is a reflection of you, of oneness. We could speculate you are just one expression, but it’d be the relative 

[Consilience]

To answer your thread title's question - you can't. In fact, you thinking there are other conscious beings is a concept. A rational concept that has evidence to support it, but a completely impossible question to prove. And any answer you have to this question will fundamentally be a belief. 

[Rilles]

Have you ever found consciousness? How do you know you have it? How do you know others have it?

[SoonHei]

@TheAvatarState

From those whom we know as deeply self realised. They say it. With conviction, that they know all of us are experiencing exactly the same thing as they themselves are

 

From my pov, i know that I AM.

When you will read this, you will know also that You ARE.

 

It's one point of consiousness, talking to another point of consiousness!

 

Simply put, without the whole oneness non-duality concept. When you see other humans around you. You know they are alive and have their own relative experience... That's as good as them being consious.

 

Also, doesn't impact anything to do with Awakening, whether or not you know if anyone else is consious or not.

 

Lastly, it won't be a yes or no like answer...

You will just KNOW that it is the case when you realize it.

It's without a doubt the case that each person is a consious POV within the infinite consiousness

[Aaron p]

@TheAvatarState for me, all of this will end up being an illusion. At the end of the day, when you look at someone and think "they are like me they must have consciousness" this is still only a concept, within *your* consciousness. We believe the earth to exist, it feels like a solid belief...but it is a belief nontheless...existing within your consciousness. All concepts or images within a person's mind about "other humans have consciousness to" is still just their own conceptions. All beliefs aren't, themselves reality. And I think most of this stuff is beliefs isint it?

[Nahm]

@TheAvatarState You can know you are everyone and no one, and you can not know if you are everyone and no one. 

[TheAvatarState]

@Nahm woahh. Does that mean "knowing" is untenable? An illusion?

[Nahm]

@TheAvatarState @Nahm

[TheAvatarState]

@Nahm what do you mean?

[ajasatya]

2 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

So what I'm asking is: how does infinite intelligence work?

this actually made me laugh 

why do you think you can grasp infinity?

[TheAvatarState]

@ajasatya Glad I could make you laugh 

Why? I don't know if I can or not, I'm just genuinely curious. Just like you can know conceptually that we're in a strange loop, but it's impossible to play- through the strange loop and actually know how it works. 

"Infinite intelligence cannot be grasped, blah blah blah." Yes, but can it be better modeled or understood? I have some big epistemic issues with infinite intelligence, and I have an intuition that they can be solved if I knew more. I think it's possible to know...

[ajasatya]

@TheAvatarState you can contemplate it and find awe in it everytime from an infinite number of different perspectives.

it's the greatest joy and mystery of existence itself, man. if you could understand it with the mind, as in some conceptual framework, it wouldn't be that amazing.

[ajasatya]

@TheAvatarState here's a tip for YOU: the universe doesn't comprehend itself. the universe just IS and doesn't even know WHY.

who are YOU? where do YOU come from? and WHY are YOU here?

isn't it the most amazing thing ever?

[TheAvatarState]

@ajasatya yes you're right, and no it's not that. I guess what I'm getting at are the ramifications of infinite intelligence... What does that actually mean for us? That means we're living the best life we could possibly live? Infinite intelligence would have to know all possible points in time for it to be infinitely intelligent, wouldn't it? And where is this data stored? It itself has to be the data storage, as it cannot lie outside of reality...

[ajasatya]

@TheAvatarState the best life? "best" is a human conception...

ONE means that there's no separated place for "data". data is everywhere. intelligence is everywhere. data, intelligence, matter, spirit, software, hardware are the same thing. everything is ONE distributed system with infinite granularity.

[TheAvatarState]

@ajasatya I'm not OK with putting it all to "magic" stuff over there. How could it possibly be that void is infinitely intelligent? Have you really thought about the ramifications of something "infinitely intelligent?" Like... Really?

And by "best" I don't mean our human- entered perspective. I mean universally best. It's obvious that there is a higher order/purpose to everything. Do you realize that the only way that's possible is if this infinite intelligence had access to every possibility in existence? At every moment in time?

[ajasatya]

@TheAvatarState alright, i give up. i guess you'll need some extreme mystical experience.

[tedens]

@TheAvatarState Are You traying to be more aware than awareness?

 

[Shadowraix]

@TheAvatarState It is that way because it can. There is literally no restriction. No limit. That is what it means to be infinite.