Advice on approaching Women

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Girzo said:

No shit, they have only known you for 5 minutes too. That's why you go on dates.

If you are satisfied with your dating life as it is, then of course you will not be interested in being cold approached. But still there are girls with less options who would love to get more attention.

Like I said (in almost all the other posts in this thread), it will work on a sizable minority of women. So, I understand why guys do it, because it increases their chances. So, continue to do it, if it works for you.

My issue is with Leo saying that his blunt approach style is rare and that it will make the woman's day even if she says no, when it is not rare and will be mostly be regarded as an annoyance to move past for the majority of women. The majority of women don't really care for cold approach when they're just going about their day, which is important to be aware of or you're going to step on a lot of toes.

So, my issue is not with cold approach itself. My issue is with the misrepresentation of what women generally appreciate and experience relative to cold approach, which adds on to the tons of sexual misinformation about women that already exists. And it's going to make a bunch of young guys reading his post think that it will be appreciated by women if he is super straightforward, when it is not. Bluntness like that, makes a guy look like a used dick salesman, and I know this from first-hand experience. So, he's giving terrible advice that's going to make anyone who listens to him look like an ass even if they're really not one. Basically, doing that will trigger a woman's spidey senses.

The more subtle you can be about a cold approach, then better. The trick is to make a cold approach feel like a warm approach as much as possible. 

 

 

[F A B]

I think pickup works well when you do it for fun, not for the results.

If she is not in the mood, just leave.

"Hey, I think you are the most beautiful girl... in this square meter "

If she completely ignores you it's even funnier ahaha

[now is forever]

@F A B depends on if you share the same square meter or not, i guess. reaction unpredictable. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by now is forever

[F A B]

4 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@F A B depends on if you share the same square meter or not, i guess.

I didn't get it

5 minutes ago, now is forever said:

reaction unpredictable.

Yes, absolutely! Maybe a slap in the face

[now is forever]

@F A B hahaha, you italiens even know how to stand close without getting slapped huh?

[F A B]

@now is forever I usually approach with a helmet 

[now is forever]

@F A B better that. not without and then better not if she’s holding a coconut.

[F A B]

@now is forever ahaha 

Are you trying to offer me a coconut? 

[now is forever]

@F A B  hahaha

 

well yeah grocery shopping could work out well for a cold-warm approach.

Edited February 3, 2019 by now is forever

[Vercingetorix]

@Emerald What you are saying just contradict my experience. It's clear to me that If you approach a girl in the right way - It will be a positive experience for her almost always.
And why not? It's something very positive to approach a girl. you assuming that If I approach you it means I approach every girl I see Is not correct. If you are an available girl, being approached is something you should appreciate immensely, because you would not approach won't you? 
maybe most men use cold approaches just to get laid, they approach every woman they see, and they don't know how to approach nicely. But it doesn't mean approaching can't be done consciously and beautifully.
 

[Emerald]

22 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

@Emerald What you are saying just contradict my experience. It's clear to me that If you approach a girl in the right way - It will be a positive experience for her almost always.
 

Maybe it contradicts your personal interpretation of the woman's experience as a man. But it doesn't actually contradict your experience, since you haven't been on the receiving end of so many cold approaches as a woman. I can tell you, as a woman who has been on the receiving end of so many cold approaches, that I am searching my memory right now for a cold approach experience that was genuinely positive to me past age 15, and I can't find one. Most of them are just neutral and something to forget about a moment later, and some are unpleasant. 

 

29 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

@Emerald And why not? It's something very positive to approach a girl. you assuming that If I approach you it means I approach every girl I see Is not correct. If you are an available girl, being approached is something you should appreciate immensely, because you would not approach won't you? 
maybe most men use cold approaches just to get laid, they approach every woman they see, and they don't know how to approach nicely. But it doesn't mean approaching can't be done consciously and beautifully.
 

No. I wouldn't approach a random guy on the street because I have no desire to do so. Number one, it takes days to weeks to develop an attraction to a man and there is no reason to assume any random guy on the street will spark my attraction. Number two, approaching random men on the street can be quite dangerous.

Women generally like to circulate around men that they know and admire and hope that he approaches. So, the female fantasy is very context-laden and involves a guy that they've been around quite a lot. And probably very few women fantasize about being cold approached. Women, will talk to eachother a lot about the men they like. But it's always some guy that they work with or go to school with or someone they met on Tinder.

So, unless a woman is really not picky, she probably isn't going to be interested in a cold approach. Now, do it anyway if it works for you. But understand that women work differently than men. What works for you as a numbers game by casting the net wider to have more chance of getting a yes, is generally not interesting to women unless they're in a club or bar or other singles location. 

I recall, back when I was in my late teens and early 20s, my friends and I would laugh about being approached by random guys. And I was always like, "Does this actually work on anyone?" I genuinely thought that it was silly for them to even try that method, as I assumed that no one would genuinely be responsive. It's kind of like how I see the Nigerian Prince emails. Like "Who actually falls for that?" Not that I'm saying it's always a scam when a guy approaches. But quite a large amount of the time it is.

So, from the female perspective, a man who approaches for the "wrong" reason or the "wrong" way, are not discernable from a man who approaches for the "right" reason or the "right" way. They all get lost in the vast sea of pick-up attempts that the woman has already experienced in her life. After a while, rejecting advances is as routine as brushing your teeth. They're mostly forgettable experiences.

So, from a female perspective, it is generally not positive. She may smile and laugh and say thank you as part of her routine, but this doesn't mean it was a positive experience. 

[now is forever]

@Vercingetorix @Emerald

i assume that approaching is a cultural thing - it struck me when i read some posts here from europeans and seeing the vids about how aggressively guys try to get attention in the us. i mean there is a whole industry built around it that tries to tell guys in the us cold approaches are the way. for girls obviously it’s kind of destroying some romance as it of course makes almost every approach of strangers cheap like  a discount good.

i had some really nice individualized warm approaches in my life, and i almost don’t get cold approaches anymore because the guys who are interested in me or would dare to, won’t do that sort of approaches here, it’s as simple as that. 

well of course clubs are different- but there you can often ignore them.

i really have a problem with the view of girls waiting for it, though. no we don’t, we wait for the right guy maybe in general in our life - but that presupposes the guy who’s approaching us would be the right one. and we could only make out if it is the right one if we feel comfortable with the situation and the person. usually we find guys not on the streets.

i never heard a story like: “can you believe it i waited for a guy to find me, on the streets and guess what some guy really came by and found me.”

maybe that would be a true cinderella story of the lost and found street princess.

Edited February 4, 2019 by now is forever

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, now is forever said:

@Vercingetorix @Emerald

i assume that approaching is a cultural thing - it struck me when i read some posts here from europeans and seeing the vids about how aggressively guys try to get attention in the us. i mean there is a whole industry built around it that tries to tell guys in the us cold approaches are the way. for girls obviously it’s kind of destroying some romance as it of course makes almost every approach of strangers like  a discount good.

i had some really nice individualized warm approaches in my life, and i almost don’t get cold approaches anymore because the guys who are interested in me or would dare to, won’t do that sort of approaches here, it’s as simple as that.

i really have a problem with the view of girls waiting for it, though. no we don’t, we wait for the right guy maybe in general in our life - but that presupposes the guy who’s approaching us would be the right one. and we could only make out if it is the right one if we feel comfortable with the situation and the person. 

i never heard a story like: “can you believe it i waited for a guy to find me, on the streets and guess what some guy really came by and found me.”

maybe that would be a true cinderella story of the lost and found street princess.

Well said. I think a lot of guys in cultures where it is seen as normal to cold approach women, tend to believe that women generally appreciate it when they usually don't. 

But then they tend to think it's just instinctual to do cold approaches and that they could never find someone if they didn't do them. 

Now, I don't necessarily have an issue with guys approaching in general. I understand why cold approaching gives a guarantee of sorts when warm approach does not, as cold approach is a numbers game based in probability. And most of the time it's a really neutral experience, that's just a slight nuisance.

But I do have an issue with them being naive and thinking that their success with the minority of women who are more responsive to cold approaches indicates that most or all women actually appreciate cold approaches and that it will "make their day" or "be positive most of the time" or that "they like it when it's done right". These ideas are so far removed from the reality of the situation, that it just has to be pointed out. 

Most women view cold approaches as more of a chore than anything else and have a script to run that gets them out of that situation without hurting the guy's feelings too much. So, they'll smile and laugh and say thank you to be nice. Having to reject people is actually really uncomfortable, because you don't know how that person will react. So, there's always an element of trying to finesse out of the situation and move on. This is not fun or exciting. It's going through the motions with a slight anxiety about how he will take the rejection.

So, being approached by a random guy has never been a situation where I've come away floating. And I'm pretty sure that most (if not all) the women I know would say the same. 

[MsNobody]

@now is forever @Emerald

The way Leo is describing, it does seem like we are gonna be waiting for this perfect guy forever, while in reality things are pretty different, I was about to ask you @Leo Gura is there Pick Up community for women? I don't like the idea of being there just waiting for things to happen, I used to agree that the men's job was to show interest and conquer the woman, and the woman's role was just to be beautiful and wait for this guy to show up, but with years passing and nothing happened unless I "caused" it, I'm not sure about the roles of each one in society nowadays, I don't meet interesting guys very often and most of the time when I bump into someone they happen to not be my type in terms of physical attraction or vice versa, so far what I've learned about relationships was from expposing myself to different types of men and aquiring experience, if I did have this mindset of waiting for guys to do all the work I wouldnt know myself, wouldn't know what I want, what I like or dislike, it's been awesome and I do have a lot of experience but sometimes I feel like I'm way further in the game than the average man and many dates I feel like I'm the "alpha" of the situatuon if you know what I mean, I would like to know your opinion on that, I've watched all your videos about relationships but I know that they used to be very orange in the begginign and you probably have a different opinion/approach by now when it comes to relationship/connection

[now is forever]

@MsNobody

you could easily learn from male pic up - just use the same tricks on them (if it’s your taste...) it sounds like they would love it. i mean what better recommendations is there for girls as doing cold approach. actually once i had a good friend who did that without letting anything getting old that was on the table. it’s not really a problem if you want to meet a lot of guys. but if you want to meet an interesting one... mhhh, it seems more difficult, you can find interesting people only at interesting places i guess.

Edited February 4, 2019 by now is forever

[billiesimon]

In my humble opinion, as a young man who is learning how to approach in clubs and bars, and generally meeting new friends, I see that the truth might just be between what Leo and Emerald say.

 

I have witnessed some girls liking my approach and some other not.

At the same time I have some female friends who claim that approaching is neutral/mildly nuisance.

At the same time I have some other female friends who have found VERY interesting guys from cold approach (by the guy I mean of course), and these men have become their boyfriends. These specific girls have a positive opinion of cold approach, and they told me that I should go to bars and clubs to approach because there's a good chunk of girls who wait for a cool guy to approach them.

One of these approach-positive girls once told me that she went several times to a bar of cool people, dressed sexy, also to find a cool guy for a new relationship.

 

I guess the truth is just in the middle. A decent amount of girls hope to be approached, while others don't care about it.

Edited February 4, 2019 by billiesimon

[Emerald]

@MsNobody @now is forever I personally don't recommend trying cold approach in the way that men do it. You'll get a ton of yeses, but most of them will be lukewarm and there won't be any romance. And it can also be dangerous since you don't know what a random guy is about.

What I recommend is being selectively and subtly flirtatious with men that you already know and are attracted to. So, you can go out of your way to talk to him a few times a week, if he works with you or goes to school with you. You can laugh at his jokes and initiate brief platonic touch... like touching him on the shoulder. 

Or, if you have something that requires physical strength or height that you do not posses, you can ask him if he'll help you open the jar or reach something in a high place. It's a subtle and ambiguous way for you to draw attention to the sex differences without seeming like you're doing it on purpose.

Or if he does something silly but masculine, you can be like "Ugh... You're such a man." It'll sound like you're taking a dig at him, but he'll probably take it as a compliment if you do it with a jovial and teasing tone. You can even initiate more physical touch if you lightly smack him on the arm or something.

Any time you can subtly and ambiguously draw his attention to how you've noticed his masculinity will really press his buttons.

But with all these things, subtlety is key, and less is more. Don't seem too into him, even if you are. So, distance makes the heart grow fonder. Don't be on him all the time. Initiate flirty behavior with him only mildly at first and only once in a conversation. It should be ambiguous, so that he has to wonder and guess a bit. He should never be more than 40% sure that you like him until he initiates a date.

And let him escalate the situation. Set up all the right conditions for him to approach, but let him muster up the courage and wonder as to whether or not you'll say yes. This will get him more invested, and it will make him feel like a million bucks when you say yes.

It's like a dance of sorts. In a dance, the man appears to make the first step but it is actually the woman who does. She has to step backward first before the man steps forward. And it gives the illusion of the man leading. But if the man were to actually make the first step before the woman does, he would just step on her toes.

So, be sure to metaphorically "throw down the handkerchief" first, so that he knows to approach you.

Edit: Also, be sure that you only reserve this treatment for him specifically. If you are flirtatious with other men while being flirtatious with him, it will completely subvert the meaning from "I wonder if she likes me?" to "Oh, I see. She must just do that with all the guys." So, the former will make you seem more rare and hard to get, and the latter will make you seem more common and lukewarm.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Emerald

[MsNobody]

@billiesimon @Emerald Yes I can keep doing whatever I'm doing I just don't think it's healthy, right now I'm on a break from men  in other words waiting for the perfect guy to come, I've been putting a lot of effort for a while, maybe if I step back like Emerald says I will leave space for them to do the work, the problem is that I feel like most men don't know what they are doing, but it can also be a limiting belief I have, anyways thank you guys for the tips

 

[Angelo John Gage]

Read the works of Bad Boy (Bad Boy lifestyle) who is a Croation war veteran that teaches direct approaching Pick Up without the BS openers and all that. He focuses mainly on body language and inner 'game' which is the most important. If you're a confident man, you can literally say anything and it can work, so long as your body language is congruent and as Leo says if your message is GENUINE.

The reason I don't mention Mystery Method is because his book, Venutian Arts Handbook is all about gambits and openers; fake-it-till-you-make- approach whereas Bad Boy Lifestyle is more genuine.

I used to suck with women, and after reading these kinds of materials, learned that my approach to women (sucking up to them instead of treating them like any other guy friend) was the OPPOSITE of what needed to be done.  I became a man whore for a few years. It was fun for sure, but even that gets old.

Also don't get addicted to "gaming"; some of these PUA people make women into 'targets,' become obsessed with each approach, turn robotic and ultimately reduce women to numbers; thinking, as many young men do, that the more women you sleep with, the more of a man you are... This is nonsense.

But that doesn't mean that reading these materials isn't helpful, because they are very helpful in understanding human social dynamics. In the end, the PUA community just took behavioral sciences and made them simpler to understand.

So you could start gaming with the Venuitan Arts Handbook to learn all the facts presented in it by Eric Markovic (Mystery) , but I personally never found his gambits to be fun; I felt fake doing it and I quickly stopped doing it. But the book will certainly teach you how women think and how the mating game works.

A few other people to check are:

David D'Angelo

Tyler Durden

All of the PUA people have YouTube videos you can just watch their content and learn there for free.

Learning from them, I really just became more direct, cocky-funny, playful and uncaring of the outcomes. Women can smell insecurity from a mile away and will reject you simply on that. The most important thing is "inner game" as I said; a simple "Hi" is enough if you're confident enough and are able to keep the conversation going after that.

So I suggest you take a look at these materials so you can learn how to express that confidence properly, because pick up is actually a form of sales, and you are the product.

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Angelo John Gage