What's wrong with being happy but unconscious?

[Hafiz]

If I wake up, the stuff that would cause me to suffer now still happens, like getting cancer or losing a loved one.

 

What then happens to my reaction to those events post waking up? What will I feel? 

[Adam M]

@Paul92 you are missing your full potential! If your fulfillment level are a 5/10 as a non-self actualizing person, your happiness levels as a self-actualized person is 1000/10.

[Saarah]

@Paul92 As you become more conscious, happiness the emotion will begin to taste like artificial sweetener! 

Especially in the context of unconsciousness

You just need to realise it by eating real food, nom nom 

[Paul92]

@Leo Gura I see your point. But isn't it just a fact of life that we are going to experience some pain at some point? 

Are you actually trying to suggest that it is wrong to feel a bit of pain if your mother has cancer?

Don't me wrong, I'd be heartbroken if my mum died. But it's not going to rule my life. And she wouldn't want it to either. I could be heartbroken she has passed, and still say that I am happy with my life!

This is what I was trying to say. Sure, I had some shitty times, but I still enjoyed waking up in a morning just because I enjoyed living! I always thought that anything is better than nothing.

@Anton Rogachevski I think you seem to be grasping what I was trying to say. 

Fuck, when I was younger I was crippled with anxiety. But my way around it, I found, was not to fight it, and just go with it. Sure I have a few insecurities still, but I'm nothing like I once was. What motivated me was just life itself, and helping other people. And of course, just having fun! 

Like I say, when I was much younger, perhaps I was quite deluded.

@TheAvatarState Didn't you say to me that helping people was the highest calling? What's wrong with wanting to enjoy your life, isn't that why we are all here? 

The whole zombie thing is hard to shake...

I just feel really numb at the moment, like I am going crazy.

What I'm trying to say is I'm not really one to let negative events rule me. Sure, I get down about it. But I was always still happy to be alive! But what is scary for me to consider today is that, somehow I need to enter a new realm or something... and that everyone around me is like a malfunctioning robot or something! We all share this globe, we all generally see the same sort of physical things, can't we just all enjoy it rather than making it something more than it needs to be? Sure, a beautiful view might not really consist of what call 'trees' or whatever. I know we label everything, which has positive and negative aspects. But can't we just enjoy the view?!

Edited January 26, 2019 by Paul92

[Pilgrim]

@Paul92

Could it be that your family and you have always been quite conscious? Like previously said, spiritual experiences aren't necessarily connected to consciousness. I know quite a few people like that, just very self-aware, humble, thoughtful people.. not into spirituality, but nevertheless conscious. That's also where their happiness comes from, they naturally have a healthy ego and are self-reflective. But they don't question their existence and things like that, they just pay close attention to all of the areas in their lives. I would also argue that it's not really possible to be truly happy and unconscious, but it's certainly possible to not be spiritual, live an ordinary life and still display high degrees of consciousness and live happily. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Elisabeth]

57 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Leo Gura I see your point. But isn't it just a fact of life that we are going to experience some pain at some point? 

Are you actually trying to suggest that it is wrong to feel a bit of pain if your mother has cancer?

Don't me wrong, I'd be heartbroken if my mum died. But it's not going to rule my life. And she wouldn't want it to either. I could be heartbroken she has passed, and still say that I am happy with my life!

This is what I was trying to say. Sure, I had some shitty times, but I still enjoyed waking up in a morning just because I enjoyed living! I always thought that anything is better than nothing.

1

The real riddle to me is ... why did learning about spirituality stear you away from that happiness? Why didn't you just stay happy and more aducated about possibilities? Why wouldn't you continue to take life as it is, and perhaps incorporate meditation, and continue to take that as it is? 

It seems you might have fallen into either depression (which could happpen even without spirituality) of some kind of a trap on the path. Or both. 

Don't focus on "what was wrong with my life". Try to find out what's going on NOW. 

I'm not sure, do I make sense?

[Paul92]

@Pilgrim Quite possibly, yes. 

People might say I'm bullshitting, but I have no reason to. My upbringing was interesting. My dad, when he was younger, suffered a lot with anxiety issues, to the point where he was given electric shock treatments. So he read a lot about mental health, and I think he came to a realisation of his own, in a way. 

I was never pressured to achieve anything, just try my best. If I succeed, great. If I don't then, it's not the end of the world. My dad would tell me never to worry about passing my exams. Sure, it would be good to. But it's not everything. Both my parents encouraged me to pursue hobbies and interests I enjoyed, and they invested a lot of time and money in me. But I think they both instilled in me never to become deluded. I'm from a normal working class family, within a relatively poor working class town. I'm not making that a sob story, I love my town! There's some real beautiful places around here. And, I live in the UK. We have a monarchy, right? The Queen is just another human being... no different to anyone else. It's all a bit bullshit, but I see the benefits of having a 'Queen' for the economy etc. But that's another debate. 

I think the main message I've always tried to adhere to is to just not get caught up in judging others too much. Sure, I can get angry with people. But I always feel stupid afterwards. Even those who hammered me at school, I don't really sit about wishing them any ill... it's all done, and they've probably changed a lot too from their childhood. 

Not sure where I am going with this. Just freaked out when I read a book telling me in no uncertain terms that I am completely and utterly deluded, and that I'm not aware of my thoughts and their impact on my health etc... when I like to think I'm decent at identifying them.

[Paul92]

@Elisabeth Well, that is what I was doing! I just took everything as it came.

But what has freaked me out is the idea that nobody is a real individual with their own experience. That we all like have a default setting that we MUST work towards. We don't have our own personalities, we don't have our own genes. I get the idea that we are ONE in terms of being humans. But if we are all sort of tapping into the same radio frequency, just ignoring it, then I get the image that we are all robots. So that makes everything absolutely and utterly pointless, doesn't it? If I like a beautiful girl, I'm not really falling for an individual, I'm falling for a possessed body... that ultimately should be ran by a higher source... of which I have no evidence of. 

[Elisabeth]

25 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Elisabeth Well, that is what I was doing! I just took everything as it came.

But what has freaked me out is the idea that nobody is a real individual with their own experience. That we all like have a default setting that we MUST work towards. We don't have our own personalities, we don't have our own genes. I get the idea that we are ONE in terms of being humans. But if we are all sort of tapping into the same radio frequency, just ignoring it, then I get the image that we are all robots. So that makes everything absolutely and utterly pointless, doesn't it? If I like a beautiful girl, I'm not really falling for an individual, I'm falling for a possessed body... that ultimately should be ran by a higher source... of which I have no evidence of. 

1

Separate layers of "truth". 

We may ultimately be one (I have no idea yet if that's true). 

But on a lower level, on the level of matter a and a separated self, sure, you have your body, your genes, your personality. If YOU are falling for a girl, she is real just as you are real. Meaning also lives in this relative world. 

Also, you do NOT have to work towards realizing the absolute truth. Who sais you have to? You only do it, if you're curious about it and want to do it. 

[TheAvatarState]

4 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Didn't you say to me that helping people was the highest calling? What's wrong with wanting to enjoy your life, isn't that why we are all here? 

The whole zombie thing is hard to shake...

I just feel really numb at the moment, like I am going crazy.

What I'm trying to say is I'm not really one to let negative events rule me. Sure, I get down about it. But I was always still happy to be alive! But what is scary for me to consider today is that, somehow I need to enter a new realm or something... and that everyone around me is like a malfunctioning robot or something! We all share this globe, we all generally see the same sort of physical things, can't we just all enjoy it rather than making it something more than it needs to be? Sure, a beautiful view might not really consist of what call 'trees' or whatever. I know we label everything, which has positive and negative aspects. But can't we just enjoy the view?!

Notice how you're putting up straw men for me based on your negative interpretations of spiritual truths. 

Yes, helping people is the highest calling. I never said not to enjoy life! That's among the top purposes of life! You're basically in a forum of people who practice seeing the beauty in life, who are more conscious of it than most.

You let "negative" events rule you, that's the only reason you've been feeling the way you have. Obviously! The world didn't change, only your perspective of it. Nothing happened TO you, you read a book which gave you a different perspective, then got depressed. All of that suffering was self-inflicted. I mean, who else did it TO you? God? Chance? Fate? Being mad at those things is pretty self-defeating and neurotic, don't you think? Zoom out a little...

[Nahm]

18 hours ago, Hafiz said:

If I wake up, the stuff that would cause me to suffer now still happens, like getting cancer or losing a loved one.

 

What then happens to my reaction to those events post waking up? What will I feel? 

That “me” slipped in there is the reaction. That there is a you separate from ‘getting cancer or losing a loved one”, is an idea. Hanging on to that idea is what suffering is. 

Cause what happens if one thing at a time, one faculty at a time, every thing is lost?  If that keeps up, there’ll be nothing! 

So, 

a) Lifetime of avoidance & suffering.

b) Experience nothing, so you know nothing, rather than knowing an idea of “me”, and an idea of nothing. 

@Paul92

[Odysseus]

On 24.1.2019 at 10:00 PM, Paul92 said:

Someone answer me this please.

What is wrong with the following?

Being a normal person. Who has a normal job. Has a small group of friends. Lives within their means. Does not expect anything from anyone. Takes the rough with the smooth. Goes through life not causing anyone or anything any harm. Is just generally content with everything he or she has. Sure, has a few things that could be better, but doesn't fixate on them. Enjoys the little things in life (time spent with friends/family, going to the cinema, listening to music, cooking, nights in with the TV, walks in the country). Doesn't question everything about his or her reality. Generally tries to help others or bring a little joy to others' experiences. Likes to read and study. Only real desire is to love those closest to them. 

This person is, 95% of the time, content, happy and grateful for the life they have. But they are still, what people on here would perceive as 'unconscious'. What makes these people, like the majority of people, lesser beings? 

I was the above. Now I am questioning everything, more fatigued and anxious than ever. 

What was wrong with my previous life, really?

There is nothing wrong with this. If you can live like this and it fulfills you, do it. Like Camus mentioned "The struggle itself ... is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy". Finally there is also no dualism between ego and being. 

[EvilAngel]

On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 9:00 PM, Paul92 said:

Someone answer me this please.

What is wrong with the following?

Being a normal person. Who has a normal job. Has a small group of friends. Lives within their means. Does not expect anything from anyone. Takes the rough with the smooth. Goes through life not causing anyone or anything any harm. Is just generally content with everything he or she has. Sure, has a few things that could be better, but doesn't fixate on them. Enjoys the little things in life (time spent with friends/family, going to the cinema, listening to music, cooking, nights in with the TV, walks in the country). Doesn't question everything about his or her reality. Generally tries to help others or bring a little joy to others' experiences. Likes to read and study. Only real desire is to love those closest to them. 

This person is, 95% of the time, content, happy and grateful for the life they have. But they are still, what people on here would perceive as 'unconscious'. What makes these people, like the majority of people, lesser beings? 

I was the above. Now I am questioning everything, more fatigued and anxious than ever. 

What was wrong with my previous life, really?

I know what you mean, Paul. I would love to go back to my previous life where I was unconscious yet happy. But do I really want that? It's like when Neo takes the red pill in the movie The Matrix. Things are not pretty in his new reality, but at least he is awake.

There's a quote I read on this forum which I can't remember exactly but it goes something like "Happiness is a good dream. Misery is a nightmare. Enlightenment cuts through both."

 

[Charlotte]

@Paul92 Are you sure you didn't see the slithers of truth in the power of now? Hence why your here? You wouldn't be here otherwise. Ask yourself...

[Will Bigger]

you hurt others

and you aren't getting the highest happiness

Edited January 27, 2019 by Will Bigger

[Mu_]

This is a question that’s really fascinated me for a while. I use to believe like most of the replies that suffering happens on a major level and it’s always been happening to most people. Along with this belief is that spirituality stuff will create “real” happiness. 

But then I started really questioning if this is true. We can’t see the whole internal world of all people. A lot of happiness studies show that people in Europe America and South America are decently content or happy. Sure as a spiritual guy you may qualify this a s not real happiness or contentment or it’s coming from the wrong place in your view but still it’s their answer to the question of how they see themselves. 

Averages are about 75/35 happy to not with only about 10-20% really not happy. This is in line with mental health records of people with real depression, anxiety ocd major addictions. 

Still I think the numbers are a little worse. So it’s vloser probably to 60/40 or so with the bottom 10-20% being major. 

Lot more to the subject but I think it’s important to let in that the world is not gone to shit and majority is screwed up or feels that way.

[Aakash]

@Mu_ how many people are spritually active in your opinion? that love their life simply because their alive. i know non personally. 

[Paul92]

Thoughts on the following. If you're open minded, please give it a watch  I'm asbolutely not knocking your beliefs, but isn't this about being opening minded..

 

[Nahm]

@Paul92 I’d research fragmentation first. Then read this thread again with that awareness. 

[TheAvatarState]

@Paul92 I watched the video, and it doesn't mean anything. The whole thing could have been faked, it could have been a legit healing, could have been any number of things, it really doesn't matter. Even assuming it was real, there was no correlation between what was experienced and "God." You see, this whole thing reeks of manipulation. Why did it have to take place in a church or "prove" that God exists? The magician influenced how the trick was perceived by holding the event in a church and slanting each conversation with the duality of "Atheism" and "God." 

The only "evidence" you have or need is your direct experience. Getting caught up in convenient theories is actually a sign of close-mindedness. You are not open-minded