Subcultures (Trigger Warning)

[Wyze]

I wanted to discuss groups like Incels, MGTOW, Alt-right, SJW etc

There are a growing number of groups that hold extreme ideologies and beliefs. I wanted to know why is our society (assuming we are at Blue/Orange) is producing such groups.

I understand the internet have a way of grouping people together, but what is causing people to form such opinions/worldviews in the first place?

I understand this is a sensitive topic; we are not here to start a debate on who is right. I am interested in genuine talk about sociology and spiral dynamics. Thanks.

[Sahil Pandit]

@Wyze I'm really confused by this. 

I mean, ever since i cleaned up my information intake years back, all these sub cultures seem so loud and toxic.

I don't understand nor do i care quite frankly about what they are pushing.

I definitely do get triggered by these things, i don't really know why... it's annoying and confusing. 

[CreamCat]

TJ Reeves uploaded a video about this yesterday, but he removed it right after I watched it.

American Psychiatric Association defines masculinity as mental disorder. Where masculinity is not valued, men stop valuing fatherhood. MGTOW doesn't value fatherhood. Incels think they are unfuckable. SJW is mostly associated with feminism and tends to blame patriarchy for random stuff.

Although there are differences among groups, all of them want to complain while staying in the known(comfort zone). They don't want to explore the unknown.

Edited January 22, 2019 by CreamCat

[Sahil Pandit]

5 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

 

Although there are differences among groups, all of them want to complain while staying in the known(comfort zone). 

U smell that ego? 

[CreamCat]

5 minutes ago, Sahil Pandit said:

U smell that ego? 

I once interacted with MGTOW subreddit. Minutes after I brought out an unconventional topic about men's issues, I was banned from the subreddit forever. They didn't want to explore the unknown. The same shit happens in other groups, too.

All of them complain about the same shit over and over and over ad nauseam. They are echo chambers.

Edited January 22, 2019 by CreamCat

[Sahil Pandit]

@CreamCat I was speaking to a friend about this but had a difficult time getting my thoughts across.

I am definitely confused as to how to go about understanding these cultures and what not + how it's impacting culture.

[CreamCat]

Just now, Sahil Pandit said:

@CreamCat I was speaking to a friend about this but had a difficult time getting my thoughts across.

I am definitely confused as to how to go about understanding these cultures and what not + how it's impacting culture.

Let me tell you what you need to know. They are not important in your life. They just want to keep complaining in the known, in their echo chambers.

They are not going to help you take responsibility, experience things that grow you, and strive for constant improvements.

For your life purpose, you should ignore them as long as they are not getting in your way.

[Sahil Pandit]

@CreamCat Gotcha.

They're pretty easy to ignore. But i let my awareness wander about "WHAT are people doing with their lives, actually?" and some of these sub cultures came to mind and i baffled... lol. 

[Wyze]

@CreamCat  Yeah with all the recently backlash on the Gillette ad. The interesting thing is that there is a opening to talk about toxic femininity. at least on youtube:

 

I think people in general are confusing masculinity between the embodied type (archetypal father) with toxic type (archetypal trickster/abuser)
and embodied femininity (archetypal mother) and toxic femininity (femme fatale). Its sad there is no conversation happening about this.
But I want to know why? Blue SD is performing out the archetypal father...but what went wrong?

[Wyze]

@Sahil Pandit I too find it hard to completely dissociate with the subcultures. I feel like they are somehow impacting on the mass/mainstream culture regardless; sooner or later, you will run into a situation where you will have to confront the ideology behind the groups.

[CreamCat]

8 minutes ago, Wyze said:

But I want to know why?

Ignore criticisms from toxic people. Just do what you want to do without excuses.

If you live long enough, you notice that all sorts of negativity come and go in society. Your job is to do what you want to do regardless of what's going on around you. They are just contemporary fads.

Edited January 22, 2019 by CreamCat

[Wyze]

@CreamCat I think its important that we can get to the root of this; because there might be new groups forming (with even more out there ideologies). Can't just ignore it anymore, and pretend it doesn't affect your life?

[CreamCat]

4 minutes ago, Wyze said:

@CreamCat I think its important that we can get to the root of this; because there might be new groups forming (with even more out there ideologies). Can't just ignore it anymore, and pretend it doesn't affect your life?

If they actually get in the way, fend them off. Otherwise, just do what you want to do.

If others in your craft are actually hurt by one of these ideologues, learn how to deal with them from your colleagues.

Don't spend more time and energy on them. Perhaps, just leave where you are for a better place if they get in your way too much. Even during world war 2, scientists could just leave germany for america so that they could continue scientific research.

This is what a life purpose warrior does.

Edited January 22, 2019 by CreamCat

[Zizzero]

20 minutes ago, Wyze said:

@CreamCat I think its important that we can get to the root of this; because there might be new groups forming (with even more out there ideologies). Can't just ignore it anymore, and pretend it doesn't affect your life?

Why? Please explain why it is important that we get to the root. Why is it bad if we ignore it?

Because to me it sounds like your confronting ideologies with ideology; "those people believe in the wrong things, how can we get them on the right track?"

Why not let them have their own opinions instead of them sharing yours?

Edited January 22, 2019 by Zizzero

[Forestluv]

@CreamCat Whether we like it or not, we all live in communities. And with technology and globalization, diffrent communities are getting connected. We are all interconnected. 

Do you think it has value to learn about different cultures and develop social skills to communicate well with various people at school, work, friends, travel, family etc. ? It seems like that would help a person navigate through life.

[Wyze]

@Zizzero Well to start off with; if you see the reaction to the new series of Doctor Who; claiming its too PC and blaming SJWs and feminism. So here this example, its affecting mass media. Another example is the Gillette ad which caused so much backlash.

The Incel movement holds some very dangerous ideologies: blackpill, call for government controlled rape etc? (some of this is very dangerous and costs lives) ..... And opposing this you have #Metoo movement.

I feel like each one of those subculture is a counter movement towards something and could be counter movement towards each other. But theres no conversation to tie it all together.

 

[CreamCat]

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@CreamCat Whether we like it or not, we all live in communities. And with technology and globalization, diffrent communities are getting connected. We are all interconnected. 

Do you think it has value to learn about different cultures and develop social skills to communicate well with various people at school, work, friends, travel, family etc. ? It seems like that would help increase someone’s success and fulfillment in life.

Of course, learning different cultures helps in the long run. However, there are limits in doing so in the short term which is what matters to you. Thus, I came up with a strategy.

• If KKK members are running around in your neighborhood and beating up people like me, just do it, or leave for a different place.
• If you found yourself in the midst of world war 2, don't try to understand the value system of nazi germany while you are being shot at. Just leave for a safe place, and do it.
  • Lots of scientists left nazi germany for USA to continue scientific research.
• If crazy ideologues are trying to censor your work, just do it. Don't let them ruin your garden. Just find a safer place if they get in your way too much. You can try to understand them later.
• Just do it, or find a better place to do it. Understand later. Do it regardless of what's going on around you.

If you are a musician or a painter, understanding other cultures can help improve your work in the long run. But, what grows you as an artist is mostly a lot of practice and a bit of theory rather than understanding other cultures. Understanding of other cultures is secondary.

Edited January 22, 2019 by CreamCat

[Forestluv]

@CreamCat  That seems like a frightening world that you describe. 

[Wyze]

@CreamCat The true fear isn't just a subculture remaining as a subculture and locally making peoples lives hard. Its when it becomes the mainstream and normalized.

4 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Of course, learning different cultures helps in the long run. However, there are limits in doing so in the short term which is what matters to you. Thus, I came up with a strategy.

• If KKK members are running around in your neighborhood and beating up people like me, just do it, or leave for a different place.
• If you found yourself in the midst of world war 2, don't try to understand the value system of nazi germany while you are being shot at. Just leave for a safe place, and do it.
  • Lots of scientists left nazi germany for USA to continue scientific research.
• If crazy ideologues are trying to censor your work, just do it. Don't let them ruin your garden. Just find a safer place if they get in your way too much. You can try to understand them later.
• Just do it, or find a better place to do it. Understand later. Do it regardless of what's going on around you.

Not everyone can just leave.

[CreamCat]

3 minutes ago, Wyze said:

@CreamCat The true fear isn't just a subculture remaining as a subculture and locally making peoples lives hard. Its when it becomes the mainstream and normalized.

Not everyone can just leave.

Well, you can establish an online business and do your business in foreign cultures and don't expose your real identity.

You can buy time to leave or just wait for cultures to change.

Drug dealers sell drugs even though drug wars are going on. Right? Life purpose warriors just do it regardless of what's going on around them.

Edited January 22, 2019 by CreamCat