32mg 5-MEO trip report -- does this substance just not work with my neurology?

[davissuitdanielle]

I first tried 5-meo-dmt a year ago and had a classic "white out" experience. At the time, before I knew much about the substance, I thought this was just a normal occurrence, my conception being that if I was having a true experience of no-self, then there would be no self to remember the experience. I later became aware that this is not indeed the case, that many folks do in fact have fully non-dual, unitive experiences with God consciousness (or however you choose to language it) and remember quite well despite the individual self being absent.

So, this time around, a month ago:

Set + Setting: a ceremonial, group ritual with an experienced facilitator in a comfortable "temple" environment

Dosage: started with 13 mg synthetic, vaporized. I held in as long as possible, laid back, exhaled, and as soon as everything in my visual field started to fractalize...

BLACK OUT

I came to, what felt like just a few moments later (not sure how long it actually was), feeling like things were a bit squiggly but had the sensation that I had missed the main event. I told the facilitator, who knew about my previous white out experience, "The same thing happened. Except this time it was black not white. I just wasn't there." He replied, "Right.... you weren't there because there is no you to be there." A little exasperated, I struggled to communicate something to the effect of, "No no, this wasn't a unitive experience of no-self, I just literally wasn't conscious." I was encouraged by him and the group to take more.

So I did another 10 mg. Same exact thing happened.

So he dosed me again, this time up to 12. (The idea being -- if you're still cogent and so little time has passed, you haven't broken through. Do more. Go deeper. But the medicine has accumulative effects apparently so that's why he wasn't jumping me to a 20mg dose, say).

SAME DAMN THING HAPPENED. Black out. Nothing. At this point, I'm feeling quite frustrated, as well as deeply saddened that this experience of merging with allness infinity -- which I had seen several of the folks in our group go through by the time it was my turn -- just didn't seem available to me. I started crying, saying, "I'm just not there, I'm just not there," feeling again this sensation that something had happened but that I just wasn't there to witness it.

Someone in the group then coyly remarked, "But that's the cosmic joke!"

That, funny enough, triggered a dramatic shift in consciousness for me.

Suddenly I was swimming in a dark, watery void of nothingness. There was still a very vague sense of a "me" experiencing "this," and every time this thin layer of "me" tried to reach for some stability, point of reference, or grounding, it just collapsed into the endless churning sea of arising and falling. I have a vague memory of laughing, feeling free from all the anxiety and pain that lives within the construct of my self, and I think I started to physically "swim" on the bed I was in, relishing the silky undulations of nothingness. As the stuff started to wear off, my typical sense of existential grief started to return. I "looked" at it (inwardly, not visually) and it appeared to me (experientially, not visually) as multi-dimensional and endlessly deep. Infinite. The grief is infinite. I said out loud, "there's just so much pain. There's infinite pain." The facilitator responded. "Yes, there is infinite pain. And there is therefore is infinite compassion." #buddhismpsychedlia

And again, there was (and still continues to be) a sadness that I didn't experience non-dual consciousness.

I'm wondering if anyone has any insights as to what's going on here. Why the black outs? Why no access to a full unitive/non-dual state? I'm sure not every brain's neurology responds to any given substance the same way, so is this just a sign that this particular molecule works within me in a more atypical way? Maybe it's just "not the right medicine" for me?

Or perhaps I'm just super sensitive, and in order for my awareness to stay present and not give way under the weight of such intensity, I need a smaller dose? I'm curious about trying, say, 8 mg, and seeing what happens. Maybe I wouldn't black/white out.

Or perhaps a different intake method could be useful -- plugging, for instance -- would that effect how the stuff works on/in me?

The insight into emptiness has certainly left a mark on my perception and meditation practice, for which I am grateful. But I can't help but still feel that nagging urge to continue chasing the dragon, as it felt so incomplete...

Any insights would be gratefully appreciated !

[TheAvatarState]

Stick it up your ass. 

Comeup is a lot smoother. The sudden rush of vapor could be shocking your system. Other than that, I don't know... I personally haven't tried it yet. 

[davissuitdanielle]

10 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

Stick it up your ass. 

Comeup is a lot smoother. The sudden rush of vapor could be shocking your system. Other than that, I don't know... I personally haven't tried it yet. 

Definitely curious to hear from folks who have tried plugging. Is it terrifying because of how much slower the disintegration process is?

[TheAvatarState]

27 minutes ago, davissuitdanielle said:

Is it terrifying because of how much slower the disintegration process is?

Only if you don't surrender

[AlwaysBeNice]

That's what you call not work? You can't rush it, need to integrate it
If God bestowed his enlightenment on the Buddha at the beginning of his search, saving him a lot of trouble, he wouldn't have been The Buddha but some insane guy flapping his arms on the ground

Edited January 21, 2019 by AlwaysBeNice

[Leo Gura]

Definitely try plugging. It's a very different experience from smoking. Although you can't plug toad venom, you'll need synthetic.

Blackout or whiteout is not good. The whole point of 5-MeO is that it's crystal clear and answers all questions. So far you haven't got it.

Also try other psychedelics. LSD or mushrooms can easily give you nondual consciousness.

With psychedelics it's very important that you don't overshoot with your dose. Less is better. At least for newbies.

Psychedelics require at least 10-20 trips to start to get a handle on how they work. 1-5 trips is just not enough because there is too much variabilty between trips. Sometimes trips are duds or go sideways.

[Enlightenment]

Well, blackout is Nibbana. I guess it's the same as in meditation, some people have a tendency towards Pure consciousness experience and some towards unconsciousness.

[davissuitdanielle]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Definitely try plugging. It's a very different experience from smoking. Although you can't plug toad venom, you'll need synthetic.

Blackout or whiteout is not good. The whole point of 5-MeO is that it's crystal clear and answers all questions. So far you haven't got it.

Also try other psychedelics. LSD or mushrooms can easily give you nondual consciousness.

With psychedelics it's very important that you don't overshoot with your dose. Less is better. At least for newbies.

Psychedelics require at least 10-20 trips to start to get a handle on how they work. 1-5 trips is just not enough because there is too much variabilty between trips. Sometimes trips are duds or go sideways.

Thanks Leo. What dose would you start with for plugging? Plugging definitely makes me a little nervous b/c I imagine that the onset is much slower...more time for fear to creep in as the ego dismantles, no? Any tips?

LSD and I are old time friends, it's been a very supportive relationship but so far no non-dual experiences.

[davissuitdanielle]

On 1/23/2019 at 8:25 AM, DrMobius said:

@davissuitdanielle Plugging has one of the slowest onsets. So yes it's probably going to be much more challenging than smoking. You're being slowly taken apart: it starts with the body, then with the mind, etc.

But a minority of people find this whole process soothing so there's that. Can't say I'm one of them. 5-MeO has always been very nasty with me before entering non-dual state.

Ah yes, exactly what I was afraid of.. Ha, well, if the urge to chase the dragon continues, i'll certainly consider it. Thanks for sharing your experience.