Do you eat meat?

[Consilience]

14 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

I eat meat because studies show that vegans are not as healthy and it is not death I oppose, but suffering that can be avoided. I dont think it matters much as to whether a chicken sees a few less sunsets than it would otherwise. With that said, I think animals should killed with the least amount of suffering as possible.

Those studies are epidemiological studies looking at broad groups without examining the details of the individual. Simply stated, the studies are bullshit with poor design if you’re looking at whether eating a vegan diet can be as healthy as a omnivore diet.

Many vegans are uneducated on which micronutrients they need to properly thrive and end up being lazy with their nutrition - as a result they arent as healthy as they should or could be. 

These are the same types of studies being done which show a link between red meat and heart disease, not accounting for whether their population has other confounding variables like high body fat level, bmi, or overall daily calorie intake. 

[Consilience]

Again I must say, the zen devilary on this particular topic is astounding. Especially by so many of you who claim to be spiritual or empathetic. 

Future generations will look back on this point in history and be blown away by the lack of compassion or effort. 

Not only is the meat and diary industry filled with suffering, they’re also literally destroying our planet. 

[ahmad ibdah]

13 minutes ago, Consilience said:

So the question becomes, is eating meat necessary? The answer is no.

12 minutes ago, Consilience said:

 

Slaughtering animals is not that bothering for a human, it is just acute suffering and it is well justified for a human being between him and his self. What is troublesome for me is animal welfare and suffering during their lives. There are far more important things for people to do in their lives before even thinking about not slaughtering animals. One of them is animal welfare?. 

Poor animals they say, and If you look into their lives , you start saying how could they think about these minor things when they have these major flaws in their lives, unconscious demons, they are. 

[legendary]

I grew up in a Vegetarian family and never ate meat until the age of 18, when I went off to college.

After that, I had an on and off relationship with meat. But it never became my staple.

I experimented with Veganism after I graduated, but never got the hang of it. I felt weaker and even fell sick at the end of my two months of Veganism, at least partially because I didn't take adequate care of my micronutrient needs.

After that: 6-8 months of constant meat eating, where I also experimented with the Paleo diet.

A few months ago, I smoked toad medicine (Bufo Alvarius) at a retreat in Barcelona with Octavio Rettig. While there were many insights I gained from the experience, towards the end of my trip, I became acutely aware of how my decisions have been creating suffering and pain for others, which was antithetical to this self-actualization journey. I felt sad for the death of all those animals (I briefly stayed in India during my Paleo phase, where the butcher kills the chicken/goat right in front of you before chopping it to pieces and selling you the meat); it was quite emotional for me.

Since then, I generally avoid eating meat . I eat organic eggs from cage free hens; and only eat meat when I'm travelling abroad and cannot find nutrient dense vegan food.

I agree with the ethical arguments against eating meat, but I believe every person must make this choice by their own volition.

Cheers!

Edited January 21, 2019 by legendary
There was room for misinterpretation

[EternalForest]

I was born into it. I've tried to stop eating it a few times to no avail, it's just too ingrained into my diet. Further, I've seen evidence that a plant only diet is unbalanced for humans and am undecided on really taking the leap to cut it out completely

[Shadowraix]

11 hours ago, isabel said:

no, your body is a liar, try smoking cigarettes for a couple of years then try quitting, your body will scream at you that it needs cigarettes...or heroin, or coke, or pills, or whatever else it's addicted to

 

Bad example. Comparing apples to oranges. 

That's because those substances alter the natural balance of the mind. Food is meant to maintain balance as fuel. 

[Shadowraix]

9 hours ago, Consilience said:

Again I must say, the zen devilary on this particular topic is astounding. Especially by so many of you who claim to be spiritual or empathetic. 

Future generations will look back on this point in history and be blown away by the lack of compassion or effort. 

Not only is the meat and diary industry filled with suffering, they’re also literally destroying our planet. 

Spiritual and empathetic aren't binary values. It is a whole journey of progression. You can preach for or against meat all you want it doesn't mean shit until your desires reflect it else you are just playing the relative morality game. People like to show empathy for the causes they like but never for the things they don't like. 

Lab meat seems like a win win for everyone though no? 

[alankrillin]

6 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Spiritual and empathetic aren't binary values. It is a whole journey of progression. You can preach for or against meat all you want it doesn't mean shit until your desires reflect it else you are just playing the relative morality game. People like to show empathy for the causes they like but never for the things they don't like. 

Lab meat seems like a win win for everyone though no? 

It depends on what the negative consequences of it might be. If for some reason it's even worse as a lot artificial things are then no. It might fix the problem of animals suffering which is great but it might still cause cancer or all sorts of problems for humans. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.powerofpositivity.com/how-meat-filled-with-cancer-and-disease/amp/

My argument here isn't to save animals.  It is about wisdom bringing right action. 

One path leads to suffering and killing of animals, its proven to cause cancer, and it has huge environmental impact to our planet. 

I think someone who consumes little meat and catches his own wild animals not supporting the meat farm industry is still on the positive path. 

When you intuitively feel oneness you won't want to kill and eat another animal if you can avoid doing so. The same way you won't want to inflict harm to your current body. 

When it's a matter of survival though you would even amputate your own limbs willingly if it means life of death. 

Yes in the grand scheme of things good and evil come together, but the choice is yours if you want to output good or evil. 

No matter how enlightened you are, you would not appreciate it if every human you came across wanted to screw you over being completely selfish because you know "everything Is pointless so why not be selfish,  good don't matter". 

Like I said Infinity is not an excuse to take wrong action, just because everything is "pointless". Thats not highly conscious or spiritual, that's just nihilism and depression. 

Enlightened people are not depressed people who go around saying everything is pointless. 

Enlightened people are in awe about how miraculous everything is. And they would have very little tendency for the destruction of anything.

Edited January 22, 2019 by alankrillin

[isabel]

8 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Bad example. Comparing apples to oranges. 

That's because those substances alter the natural balance of the mind. Food is meant to maintain balance as fuel. 

my point isn't that heroin and meat are the same, my point is that you can't always trust your body to tell you what is good or what is right...

[alankrillin]

14 minutes ago, isabel said:

my point isn't that heroin and meat are the same, my point is that you can't always trust your body to tell you what is good or what is right...

Don't worry about him at least with rats they proven junk food can create addiction and craving. Food is similar to chemicals.

Video games and porn can be addictive just through the chemical reactions and dopamine it causes in the brain without any external substances. 

So you are right you can't trust your body or brain.

[isabel]

1 hour ago, alankrillin said:

Don't worry about him at least with rats they proven junk food can create addiction and craving. Food is similar to chemicals.

Video games and porn can be addictive just through the chemical reactions and dopamine it causes in the brain without any external substances. 

So you are right you can't trust your body or brain.

thank you, I believe that is true, can't trust the body/brain, and applies to way more than just food...

 

 

[iTommy]

I do eat meat since it seems to help my digestion and overall physical and emotional wellbeing. I would like to eat less meat and consume fewer animal products because of my own moral reasons, yet my current diet (ketogenic) seems to work for me, although it's not optimized and rather "dirty" currently. Before this diet, I ate meat maybe twice/three times a week in small amounts. I ate more rice, fruits, potatoes, spaghetti, bread, honey and so on. My stomach would get bloated, I gained weight, my digestion was terrible ++. I must admit, that I maybe have some intolerances, like gluten, that I don't know about yet and thus my health declined.

Besides that, I need to eliminate some foods either way (including certain fruits, nuts, vegetables and more), because of the way my stomach looks according to doctors/diagnosis. Now, on top of that, it's assumed that I might have IBS or something similar and if that is the case (which seems like it), then I will have to limit myself even more in regards to food. I am not writing this for sympathy, but to point out that for some individuals, meat and animal products might be a good choice when it comes to "living healthy". 

As I pointed out, I'd love to eat differently, eating fruit salads, drinking fresh fruit juice, making certain types of smoothies and all that. It's just that the ketogenic diet seems to work for my needs, and I somewhat know what kinds of food I don't react badly to, that includes meat. In the future, I will probably change things up again, when I know more about what I should or shouldn't eat/what I react to and what not. 

[Shadowraix]

6 hours ago, alankrillin said:

Don't worry about him at least with rats they proven junk food can create addiction and craving. Food is similar to chemicals.

Video games and porn can be addictive just through the chemical reactions and dopamine it causes in the brain without any external substances. 

So you are right you can't trust your body or brain.

Go deeper than that. 

[SgtPepper]

Yes I eat meat because its healthy, natural, and necessary for MY optimal health. 

[SgtPepper]

On 1/20/2019 at 8:07 PM, alankrillin said:

And there lies the answer, if humans couldn't survive the answer would be obvious wouldn't it.

I suggest you research the science of eating meat more thoroughly. 

The reason why many people say that vegan diets are poor is because how badly balance ppl are. They eat potato chips and call themselves vegan then have all sorts of health problems. 

There are body builders and athletes on vegan diets. 

The poor excuses to justify meat eating is just bad. 

First you need to be honest if you live a area where you can buy fruit, veggies, nuts and legume easily then meat eating for you is just for the taste buds. 

That's not true at all. LOTS of people have tried vegan the "right" way and ended with poor health. you can find a bunch of videos of "ex-vegans" online who were vegans for 3+ years.

Body builders on vegan diets use steroids. Although Simmnett nutrition looks good aesthetically speaking.

Meat has vitamins you can't get fruit, veggies, nuts, or legumes such as B12, Vitamin A, creatine and more. 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants

 

 

[SgtPepper]

On 1/20/2019 at 8:42 PM, alankrillin said:

I love how you conviently use whatever evidence to justify an arguement whilst ignoring evidence that contradict your arguement. 

Firstly we evolved from shared ancestor with the ape and our Dna is very similar. All primates have canines you numnuts

"Apes are herbivores for the most part, but they also may eat smallanimals or bugs"

We don't have the bodies or abilities to hunt animals,  we used tools so it's obvious we were not meat hunters from the get go.

We can only absorb most nutrition from meat if we artifically cook meat, you do not have the body, teeth,  stomach or ability to catch a wild animal and eat it raw.

Eating raw meat can make us easily ill and kill us in the wild. Which Is something real meat eating animals don't need to worry about. 

We have some of the smallest canine teeth in the animal kingdom. 

Leafy greens, legumes, seeds and nuts have B vitamins, you'll be OK numbers. 

Again bro you are wrong. It's okay, I was there, I bought into the vegan propaganda and said the same things you are saying, but the truth is human beings actually can and DO kill wild animals and eat them raw. 

Inuit and Massai people do this. Not to mention Tartare is a popular dish in parts of the world.

Here are some alternative resources.

https://www.wewant2live.com

https://www.westonaprice.org

On 1/21/2019 at 3:34 PM, alankrillin said:

Mate you really need to do your research.  You probably read one article on the Internet  that probably says meat is required, probably paid by the meat industry to keep the payroll going.  

A balance varied diet of vegetables, fruit, legumes, nuts and seeds is the ultimate diet. Hands down. 

Don't forget the supplements...

[alankrillin]

13 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Again bro you are wrong. It's okay, I was there, I bought into the vegan propaganda and said the same things you are saying, but the truth is human beings actually can and DO kill wild animals and eat them raw. 

Inuit and Massai people do this. Not to mention Tartare is a popular dish in parts of the world.

Here are some alternative resources.

https://www.wewant2live.com

https://www.westonaprice.org

Don't forget the supplements...

Great more nonsense. 

Your first flaw I'm not into any vegan propaganda. You can stop with that. 

Secondly if you actually read anything I said instead of trying to prove me wrong you would have seen that I said humans need external tools to hunt unlike any other creature on this entire-planet. 

So unless those those tribesmen you mentioned  are chasing prey with their bare hands and teeth then your argument is mute.

I never said you can't eat raw meat but again you didn't read. Everyone knows about sushi. 

I said raw meat releases much less nutrients than cooked meat, and I said raw meat can easily make us ill whilst carnivores have no problem.  Both which are true.

You also said vegans bodybuilders use steroids, as opposed to what??  that meat eating bodybuilders don't? Grow up what kind of argument or reasoning is this? 

With that kind of reasoning you'd be the joke in a judge jury TV episode. 

Supplements, seaweed etc are easily accessible for first world countries.  Also the body can create some missing nutrients.  The article you linked me is so stupid it has vitamin D3, has nothing to do with being a vegan best form of vitamin D3 is 15 minutes a day in direct sunlight. 

[alankrillin]

PS.

As someone who eats very little meat a week think 1 can of tuna approx.  And barely any wheat/bread  (occasional pizza).  My blood and vitamin results came back perfectly fine.  I was told that I'm "slightly" low on vitamin D and that's because I live in a cold cloudy country. 

So forgive me if I ignore what I think is the same food industry that corrupted the food pyramid with processed wheat products making false claims. 

I'll use my own direct experience that my blood tests show that I'm perfectly healthy. 

PPS

Common ancestor with apes,  nearly an exact match in Dna. Apes are mainly herbivores. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by alankrillin

[Average Investor]

Haven't had any in 6 months. Don't seem to miss it at all. 

[B3N]

No - makes dropping a fat deuce easier.