The personal vs. The impersonal path.

[Moment]

Hey guys! Sorry for long post but this is something that I have been thinking about al lot. And I have been thinking about posting this for a long time. I guess I am in need of some perspectives

Just to set the stage..

Been on this path ever since my first mystical experience 4 years ago. Last year I decided to go to India. The reason being that my cousin lives there, and she lives in this Ashram and she is a student of an Enlightened man. She met him when she was traveling Europe in her early twenties and the guy had such profound effect on her that she just decided to move to India with him and stay there. Apparently, the guru was traveling Europe to teach outside India. What he is teaching is bhakti yoga. As for those who do not already know Bhakti yoga is a spiritual path or spiritual practice within Hinduism focused on loving devotion towards a personal god. And this last words "personal god" is where I got problems. I was traveling to India with and open mind and a hope of progress.

 

Long story short, I ended up really struggling with their teaching. As I have more of a background in the Buddhist philosophy, the ideas of a soul, super soul and a personal god was very alien to me. I was doing my best to translate their teaching into my own language, believing that it was all a matter of playing with words, and that its all different ways to point to the same truth. But I was wrong. Many in the ashram was very specific that this way of spirituality differ from Buddhism and that even the realizations are different. It might be noteworthy to say that the book they are studying is bhagavad gita. Anyways, I was told that there are especially two ways of practicing spirituality and that is:

The personal vs. The impersonal path.

 

Are any of you guys familiar with these concepts? The guru basically said that one will have different awakenings depending on which of these two paths one is most align with. The impersonal realizations is to realize that everything is one/emptiness/Brahman, and that one can have these realizations by detaching from the material world. And that this is regarded as the ultimate truth in Buddhism. However, I was told that this is not the highest form of spirituality and that there is higher awakenings beyond this where on starts to realize the more personal aspects of god. The metaphor that was used was that the impersonal realizations one/emptiness/Brahman is seeing the sunlight, a sense that there is something there. But that the personal path will ultimately lead you to too see the sun. In other words, in the ultimate reality god has form, and that by realizing our own spiritual body one can start to have a real personal relationship with god. This is where i personally started to struggle. If god is personal, and if god has form.. That means that the ultimate reality is dual? This did not makes sense too me. Reality  must ultimately be nondual I argued. But I was told that its actually both nondual and dual at the same time. 

 

The way they go about their spiritual practice is also very different from anything else I've seen as well. They focus on relation, both to God himself and others. And that detachment is not key, attachment to others, and loving devotion towards a personal god is key in order to have this personal realizations.

 

I would also like to add that they are very clear that this is not religion. And that religion is for those who are at lowest stages of consciousness. I understand if this sounds like bullshit to many of you, and even though I don't know if I fully trust the guru yet, I do trust my cousin. And she says that she has had many awakenings after she started following his teachings, both personal and impersonal and that there really is a difference between those two. And that we are not merely playing with words.

 

Do any of you guys have knowledge about this form of spirituality. Any thoughts? I appreciate anything

Edited January 20, 2019 by Moment

[Enlightened]

7 minutes ago, Moment said:

Hey guys! Sorry for long post but this is something that I have been thinking about al lot. And I have been thinking about posting this for a long time. I guess I am in need of some perspectives

Just to set the stage..

Been on this path ever since my first mystical experience 4 years ago. Last year I decided to go to India. The reason being that my cousin lives there, and she lives in this Ashram and she is a student of an Enlightened man. She met him when she was traveling Europe in her early twenties and the guy had such profound effect on her that she just decided to move to India with him and stay there. Apparently, the guru was traveling Europe to teach outside India. What he is teaching is bhakti yoga. As for those who do not already know Bhakti yoga is a spiritual path or spiritual practice within Hinduism focused on loving devotion towards a personal god. And this last words "personal god" is where I got problems. I was traveling to India with and open mind and a hope of progress.

 

Long story short, I ended up really struggling with their teaching. As I have more of a background in the Buddhist philosophy, the ideas of a soul, super soul and a personal god was very alien to me. I was doing my best to translate their teaching into my own language, believing that it was all a matter of playing with words, and that its all different ways to point to the same truth. But I was wrong. Many in the ashram was very specific that this way of spirituality differ from Buddhism and that even the realizations are different. It might be noteworthy to say that the book they are studying is bhagavad gita. Anyways, I was told that there are especially two ways of practicing spirituality and that is:

The personal vs. The impersonal path.

 

Are any of you guys familiar with these concepts? The guru basically said that one will have different awakenings depending on which of these two paths one is most align with. The impersonal realizations is to realize that everything is one/emptiness/Brahman, and that one can have these realizations by detaching from the material world. And that this is regarded as the ultimate truth in Buddhism. However, I was told that this is not the highest form of spirituality and that there is higher awakenings beyond this where on starts to realize the more personal aspects of god. The metaphor that was used was that the impersonal realizations one/emptiness/Brahman is seeing the sunlight, a sense that there is something there. But that the personal path will ultimately lead you to too see the sun. In other words, in the ultimate reality god has form, and that by realizing our own spiritual body one can start to have a real personal relationship with god. This is where i personally started to struggle. If god is personal, and if god has form.. That means that the ultimate reality is dual? This did not makes sense too me. Reality  must ultimately be nondual I argued. But I was told that its actually both nondual and dual at the same time. 

 

The way they go about their spiritual practice is also very different from anything else I've seen as well. They focus on relation, both to God himself and others. And that detachment is not key, attachment to others, and loving devotion towards a personal god is key in order to have this personal realizations.

 

I would also like to add that they are very clear that this is not religion. And that religion is for those who are at lowest stages of consciousness. I understand if this sounds like bullshit to many of you, and even though I don't know if I fully trust the guru yet, I do trust my cousin. And she says that she has had many awakenings after she started following his teachings, both personal and impersonal and that there really is a difference between those two. And that we are not merely playing with words.

 

Do any of you guys have knowledge about this form of spirituality. Any thoughts? I appreciate anything

Hello Moment. My name is wayne. Is there a facility here. for us to chat live. i have many questions for you. or i don't mind. having it all play out in public. but these are such personal matters of mine. it doesn't matter to me though. but it might invite distraction.

[Salvijus]

I find this amazing.

2 hours ago, Moment said:

This is where i personally started to struggle. If god is personal, and if god has form.. That means that the ultimate reality is dual? This did not makes sense too me. Reality  must ultimately be nondual I argued. But I was told that its actually both nondual and dual at the same time. 

 

The way they go about their spiritual practice is also very different from anything else I've seen as well. They focus on relation, both to God himself and others. And that detachment is not key, attachment to others, and loving devotion towards a personal god is key in order to have this personal realizations.

 

Amazing. I like this Topic.

What I've heard how bhakti Yoga works is that they choose a powerful source of energy. Like a deity or god or goddess. And when they fall in Absolute Love they drop all their personality and identity and if the energy is very strong. That energy, that deity that one is worshipping will become a part of you. Basicly you will become what you're worshipping. 

Amazing......... So amazing.

It's very interesting reading about different traditions like if you read tao you would discover that they have almost their own enlightenment witch is different from others. Like they have 10levels and the ultimate level is you become a part of the universe and help maintain the order in the universe. and they have like 5elements like Yoga also. They have fire air water metal wood. Yoga has fire air water earth space. 

I guess it all makes sense in the end and they all probably talkinng about the same. But still it's amazing .I really really recommend you watch this video till the end. It's about bhakti Yoga and a devotee who was so devoted to his personal god that his face even became like hers... AMAZING... 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR24QSo9TsOLtJX544tPMp31VRaSJzsUFGR7gvdbfPx9NDkMAXkZS4YrsRw&v=qxr9YSJ3Fv8

EDIT. omg they deleted the video... what a shame...

It was about a simple guy who was cooking for this sage women and his face become like hers. Sadhguru says that's the power of devotion. When you're devotion a powerful source of energy can simply change everything about even your fundamentals. 

This is a nice story about devotion also

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Salvijus

[Jkris]

Can you please share the name of the swamiji? Ashram details? 

[Moment]

@Jkris here u go