Actualized.org Is The Holy Grail

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv I'm not flipping the question around in any way. I mean it literally--the physical environment--our everyday ordinary life. Did the furniture move? Was there a major glitch in the computer? Did a dead flower come back to life without you doing anything to it? Did you enter a room and you saw it exactly how it was in your dream? Something that would shock your ego and other egos. Because there can be witnesses. 

I know you are not flipping the question. I am, because there are two equal sides of the coin (which later get integrated into One).

From the psychedelic perspective, those questions don't make sense. I give equal weight to both perspectives.

It's somewhat similar to a person speaking Chinese and a person speaking Spanish. The Spanish speaker insists we speak in Spanish. Yet both languages are on equal footing and preference should not be given to either language. A person fluent in both Chinese and Spanish will understand this. Such a person can communicate with both Chinese and Spanish speakers. Further, such a bilingual person can integrate the two languages and go much deeper.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv well, then that's your choice. I don't have anything else to say. To me, the physical environment that we're in counts a lot. There's a saying that goes something like this, "If you spend too much time seeking the spiritual world, then life becomes pointless." We're not talking about languages. That's different. We're still embodied in the ego. 

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv well, then that's your choice. I don't have anything else to say. To me, the physical environment that we're in counts a lot. There's a saying that goes something like this, "If you spend too much time seeking the spiritual world, then life becomes pointless." We're not talking about languages. That's different. We're still embodied in the ego. 

That is true from one side of the coin.

To fully understand the language analogy one would need to have fluency in both languages. From the perspective of only one language, it won't make sense. 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv I don't want to get into judgements. You really do not know exactly what happened on my path, which is why I don't talk about it much. I'm not insisting that anyone do anything. Go and take psychedelics if you want. I just wanted to know if there were any physical changes in the matrix. 

The answer to my question is still a no.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv I don't want to get into judgements. You really do not know exactly what happened on my path, which is why I don't talk about it much. I'm not insisting that anyone do anything. Go and take psychedelics if you want. I just wanted to know if there were any physical changes in the matrix. 

My perspective on this based on both sober and 5-meo experience. My understanding is you don't have any direct experience with 5-meo, which limits the conversation to primarily one perspective. 

Regarding physical changes, I would say that if someone took psychedelics and fully returned to a purely physical perspective in the sober mind state, there wold not be any physical changes, yet the relationship to that physical orientation while sober might change temporarily. From a pure psychedelic perspective, the question does not make sense because it assumes the construct of a physical reality and psychedelics will not accept that assumption. One must surrender that assumption to enter the psychedelic realm. When returning, one must accept that assumption to return to a sober physical perspective.  Again, I am not taking sides and saying one perspective has more value than another. I am being a diplomatic advocate for both perspectives. Lastly, I wold say that within a holistic perspective that integrates both psychedelic and traditional sober constructs that there are simultaneously both physical changes and no physical changes. 

Overall, the answer is no, yes and both/neither - depending on the perspective. These answers will not make sense from only one perspective. Yet, from an integrated perspective based on direct experience of both sober and psychedelic mindsets - it makes sense.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv See, in looking at your posts here and your other posts, you label ppl disagreeing with you as "having only one perspective," without even knowing their path, and you go into things wayyy too much--unnecessarily going into things. It's like, I say: I have a blue cup. And, you argue that I have a blue cup with bubble design, and you comment on the position of all the microscopic bubbles.  We all know that.

I already got an answer to my question: the answer is no. The physical environment doesn't change during a psychedelic 5meo experience. You seem to not be happy with that answer and start to go into other things, and start labelling me and others.

Like it or not, we still have to live in a physical environment and body. Yes, both are egos and both are one. Most ppl here already understand that. I'm not interested in coercing ppl to take psychedelics or not. That was not my point. The question has already been answered. 

[Arthur]

I cannot speak about traditional spiritual methods, like meditation or yoga (I've only done a couple of years of meditation). However, I can share some light on what 5-meo can do.

I've experienced such radical states of consciousness, that they are absolutely impossible. The degree of awakening with 5-meo is total. When you experience what I'm talking about, there will be no external/internal reality, no personality, no life purpose, no spiritual work, no actualized.org and not even yourself. The realization of your True nature exists is the Absolute domain, whereas all the rest is relative. It doesn't matter what you did a 15 minutes ago, whether it's a psychedelic or not. You awaken from life and from everything around you. 

When you experience the True Self, it is over. Your life is done. The mask you proudly wear (your Ego) is been taken off. When you become the Absolute, the whole matrix breaks down and stops existing. The room you are in doesn't exist anymore.. literally! The existence of that room was only ever inside your consciousness, and now it is infinite. 

Psychedelic states are so profound, that they left me in a state of complete awe and shock. It's so existentially deep, that there no way to argue about it. You can pretend you are a person, but you know better. There is no need to even talk about it. Your life and everybody in it, are not real anymore. I don't know if Enlightenment masters experienced those states. They might have because the scriptures describe the True Self as accurately as words can. Yet even then, this stuff is so profound that most teachings are not even scratching the surface. 

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements I acknowledge that relative bypassing is devilry and something to be aware of. The ego can be self-righteous in various ways.

I acknowledge that my direct experience is inherently biased in a relative mode of being. Yet, I don't think I am bypassing with relativity here. In this instance, I am sharing my direct experience about 5-meo. I am not saying my 5-meo direct experience has more value than your 5-meo direct experience. You don't have any 5-meo direct experience, so there is no disagreement. You don't have any 5-meo experience for me to disagree with. Since a non-5-meo perspective is radically different than a 5-meo perspective, I think it is fair to draw a distinction between the two.

 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv are you saying that I'm bypassing? Because now you're mentioning being a Zen devil indirectly. 

I do not wish to share what happened to me in my path because I do not want to look like a "show-off" or an "authority." Ppl do get such labels. I'm learning in this forum that I have to approach my life purpose tactfully. This is a very sensitive topic.

[Forestluv]

@Arthur well said ? ♥️ 

[Forestluv]

 

11 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv are you saying that I'm bypassing? Because now you're mentioning being a Zen devil indirectly. 

I do not wish to share what happened to me in my path because I do not want to look like a "show-off" or an "authority." Ppl do get such labels. I'm learning in this forum that I have to approach my life purpose tactfully. This is a very sensitive topic.

No. I am saying that I, myself, am not bypassing on a relative level. It is something I worked on as I developed into relative modes of being. And yes, my ego can become a devil at times within this realm. Yet, I genuinely don't get the sense I am doing that here.

I am only making one distinction here: non-5-meo direct experience and 5-meo-direct experience. The details of the non-5-meo direct experience is irrelevant. It's all non-5-meo experience. 

It's not about you at all since you don't have any 5-meo experience. In the language analogy, I am simply saying you don't have direct experience speaking Chinese. Your manner of speaking English is irrelevant.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv

I like how the Cloth Bag Monk was known at the end of the story. To me, he did well in how he taught, in his approach. Now it's a matter of how to apply the wisdom during our time. Cloth Bag Monk lived in ancient times.

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements A great perspective. I like his approach and style. Very genuine. ? ♥️ 

[Leo Gura]

There is nothing to say. Either do it or don't.

But it is the Holy Grail.

[now is forever]

@Leo Gura i guess someone has sold you that trash. the grail is not a thing. 

they also said there was something like heroin but it was not the heroine of a story.

be careful what god’s you pray to.

Edited January 23, 2019 by now is forever

[Leo Gura]

If you guys refuse to do empirical research, that's not my problem. I told you from day 1 that Actualized.org is an empirical enterprise and that none of your beliefs or opinions mean squat unless you put them to the test.

[now is forever]

@Leo Gura not everything needs to be tested sometimes we have eyes to see and ears to hear and mouths to speak and that’s already empirical.

although everything might need to be questioned.

Edited January 23, 2019 by now is forever

[Joseph Maynor]

The holy-grail is your own understanding of life and personal development.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, now is forever said:

not everything needs to be tested

Keep telling yourself that, devil. You ain't fooling me.

[iGhost]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Keep telling yourself that, devil. You ain't fooling me.

Just out of curiosity. When you point out someone's devilness, isn't then you are the evil?

I mean yeah then how would you communicate and help raise people's consciousness in this finite world. And Duality is within Non-duality.

Did I answer my own question?