Actualized.org Is The Holy Grail

[now is forever]

try to imagine the end product.  if it wouldn’t fail 90%... hair body combination is kind of interesting. especially in the cleaning surrounding.

also by 100% accuracy - these nice little meals out of the nice clean plastic bowls - ok at least the microwave is out of picture.

i guess the pictures are already at 10% of the vision...

would be an outcome of 1% after 6 months without radical shifts in perspective.

 

just using @Hansu‘s 90% rule  as a hypothesis of what is realistically achievable, 80 to 20 could be more accurate, don’t know.

Edited January 22, 2019 by now is forever

[Key Elements]

On 21/01/2019 at 0:12 AM, Leo Gura said:

I will, after you do some 5-MeO

Do you think that something that "powerful" (viewed from the ego's perspective) will not effect your "external" world at all physically, and there will be no changes or indications? Come on! Afterall, all is "you."

[Forestluv]

I did over 20yrs. of substance-free spiritual work as well as three years of spiritual work that has included a variety of psychedelics, including 5-meo. I think there is a lot of value in both. Imo, any contextualization of 5-meo from a sober mindset will fall short. I had to go there to find out and I can say with 100% honesty it was not like anything I could have imagined and trying to evaluate the pros and cons of 5-meo without direct experience is extremely limited and ultimately futile.

The other thing I did (and see others doing) is to assume the sober mindset is the "real" one and 5-meo is a tool to learn things that can be applied to one's "real life". In my personal experience, this is incorrect. The 5-meo reality is as real as the sober reality. It's not like 5-meo is a tool to gain insights to apply to "real life". Rather than use the term "application", we use the term "integration" of the 5-meo reality with sober reality. From a strictly sober perspective, 5-meo is an altered state of consciousness. From a 5-meo perspective, the sober mind is an altered state of consciousness. Once the two are placed on similar levels and one is not "more real" than another, we can integrate the two. Over time with practice, the two move closer and closer to form an integrated whole.

As well, I think the baseline conscious level of the mind-body is very important. I had a 20+ year spiritual foundation before I took my first psychedelic. I think this strong foundation was essential. I found it very challenging to integrate the two and I can't imagine trying to integrate without a strong spiritual foundation. Also ime, psychedelics were absolutely awful for personal development, it did the opposite: personal deconstruction and obliteration. It took me about 20 diverse trips to develop the experience and skills necessary to integrate with the personality.

*This is just based on my direct experience of "both sides" and I don't speak as any type of authority. As well, my description is limited because I am trying to communicate within the limited structure of traditionally sober reality. 

[Key Elements]

I'm interested in hearing a response from Leo. If not, that's ok too. No problem. I've always wondered why sometimes these 'enlightened masters' don't encourage the use of psychedelics. It's such a touchy subject, and it shouldn't be. 

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

I've always wondered why sometimes these 'enlightened masters' don't encourage the use of psychedelics. It's such a touchy subject, and it shouldn't be. 

I'm interested in "enlightened masters" that have decades of substance-free spiritual work as well as over 100 psychedelic trips in which the lessons were integrated with intensive meditation, yoga, contemplation and direct inquiry. Those are the enlightened masters that can speak from direct experience from both sides and are more qualified to encourage or discourage the use of psychedelics depending on the developmental stage and personality dynamic of the seeker.

You are giving more weight to "sober enlightenment". It would be like saying let's hear from someone who has tripped over 100 times, yet has never done any spiritual work. It's not one or the other. It's an integrated whole.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv there is already information on that. Ram Dass's guru had both.

 

[Key Elements]

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

You are giving more weight to "sober enlightenment". It would be like saying let's hear from someone who has tripped over 100 times, yet has never done any spiritual work. It's not one or the other. It's an integrated whole.

No I'm not. Don't assume. The correct response to my response would be: there can be physical changes to the external environment to a psychedelic trip of the no-self. 

However, so far, the answer is no. This may be the reason why "enlightened ppl" go against psychedelics. I think. 

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements Thank you. I'm not sure if he had over 100 trips with a variety of psychedelics, a variety of doses in a variety of settings. If so, his experience would be ONE perspective that could integrate the two (just like my experience is simply one perspective). Ram Dass or myself are not an objective truth about psychedelics or spirituality. Yet, Ram Dass and myself can both contribute to the conversation based on direct experience. The next step is to take over 100 beings with over 20+ years of substance-free spiritual experience + over 100 psychedelic trips that have been integrated at the individual level and integrate the direct experience of those 100 beings to form a higher-order holistic perspective.

Imo, to earn a seat at the table, someone would need extensive experience with both substance-free and psychedelic spirituality. Yet, that is simply one seat at the table.

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

No I'm not. Don't assume. The correct response to my response would be: there can be physical changes to the external environment to a psychedelic trip of the no-self. 

From the perspective of 5-meo you are giving more weight to a traditional sober reality. You are not aware of this because you haven't done 5-meo.

The correct response to my response is to do 5-meo 10+ times.

[bejapuskas]

Gosh, I'm kind of terrified, just as Key Elements, but also I wanna do psychedelics to elevate my consciousness...

It's fucking hard to get rid of this assumption that „drugs are bad“ (sorry for saying this Leo, I know you love your baby )

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv great. Then you could go and research that and do that, and maybe perhaps do that in your life purpose, if that's what you want to do. If not, that's your choice. The life of a human beings' ego is short. We're here to learn our lessons within our lifetimes and take action on them. This topic is very woo-woo in our present day society. I'm not sure if I want to pass the message on in a psychedelic way. In this life, an awakening and chasing the awakening isn't required. The point is to shift toward peace and raise the awareness of peace in society through our LP like a ripple effect.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, bejapuskas said:

It's fucking hard to get rid of this assumption that „drugs are bad“ 

It's not a matter of classifying psychedelics as "good" or "bad". It is context-dependent. Psychedelics can be helpful and they can be counter-productive. They can be beneficial or harmful. It's context-dependent.  

[Key Elements]

46 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Gosh, I'm kind of terrified, just as Key Elements, but also I wanna do psychedelics to elevate my consciousness...

It's fucking hard to get rid of this assumption that „drugs are bad“ (sorry for saying this Leo, I know you love your baby )

I already have something to say about the no-self in my life purpose. Whether or not I fear psychedelics doesn't matter.

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv great. Then you could go and research that and do that, and maybe perhaps do that in your life purpose, if that's what you want to do. If not, that's your choice. The life of a human beings' ego is short. We're here to learn our lessons within our lifetimes and take action on them. This topic is very woo-woo in our present day society. I'm not sure if I want to pass the message on in a psychedelic way. In this life, an awakening and chasing the awakening isn't required. The point is to shift toward peace and raise the awareness of peace in society through our LP like a ripple effect.

I agree. That is a grounded perspective and a mature path. I walked a similar path for over 20yrs and it goes deep. And I only scratched the surface. For example, you speak of LP as a spiritual tool in a sophisticated way. I haven't had much direct experience with that. I had separated my life into separate categories of career, health, relationships and spirituality. I've only begun to integrate them together.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv yes, but I wanted to know out of curiosity if there were any changes in the environment as the result of a psychedelic trip. I take that as a "no." Haven't heard from Leo or anyone, and so far, haven't heard of it when I research.

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv yes, but I wanted to know out of curiosity if there were any changes in the environment as the result of a psychedelic trip. I take that as a "no." Haven't heard from Leo or anyone, and so far, haven't heard of it when I research.

In what context are you using the term "environment"?

[Key Elements]

42 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

In what context are you using the term "environment"?

External environment. The external world. Not the embodied, ego "you."

I don't want to explain it here in a post--takes too long. I rather go into it in my LP.

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

External environment. The external world. Not the embodied, ego "you."

I don't want to explain it here in a post--takes too long. I rather go into it in my LP.

I would flip that question and ask if there are any changes in the psychedelic environment as a result of a sober trip.

For me, it's a really difficult question to answer based on the terms "changes" and "environment", since there is no objective measure of what constitutes "environment".

The best I can say is that the relationship to the environment matures. Sober and psychedelic environments are both different and the same. Yet in the beginning, they appear very different and 99% of the people I see with psychedelic experiences speak as if they are only different. It takes a lot of work to integrate toward sameness.

As well, I think there is a misconception that psychedelics are some type of magic bullet. They can be in terms of sudden awakening. Yet in terms of personal and spiritual development, psychedelic integration takes a lot of investment and integration work. It's like someone saying "I want to quickly learn to speak Chinese fluently in the next few months to jump start my career".

[Igor82]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I would flip that question and ask if there are any changes in the psychedelic environment as a result of a sober trip.

For me, it's a really difficult question to answer based on the terms "changes" and "environment", since there is no objective measure of what constitutes "environment".

The best I can say is that the relationship to the environment matures. Sober and psychedelic environments are both different and the same. Yet in the beginning, they appear very different and 99% of the people I see with psychedelic experiences speak as if they are only different. It takes a lot of work to integrate toward sameness.

Amazing!

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv I'm not flipping the question around in any way. I mean it literally--the physical environment--our everyday ordinary life. Did the furniture move? Was there a major glitch in the computer? Did a dead flower come back to life without you doing anything to it? Did you enter a room and you saw it exactly how it was in your dream? Something that would shock your ego and other egos. Because there can be witnesses.