A psychedelic experience says nothing about matters of what is true

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The basis of all genuine understanding is direct personal experience and investigation. Until you perosnally gain significant experience with psychedelics, you will not understand what the words "psychedelic", or "experience", or "reality" even mean.

1 or 2 trips is also not enough to understand. This will require some serious investigation from you.

Until such time, you can even begin to imagine how little you understand.

If you are too lazy or scared to investigate this domain of life, that's on you. Then you have chosen personal comfort over truth.

Don't you think you can also not desire to take psychedelics because you know that you could enter the trap of "chasing experiences" ?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Shin said:

Don't you think you can also not desire to take psychedelics because you know that you could enter the trap of "chasing experiences" ?

That would be fear.

Yes, you can certainly have that fear. But truth doesn't care about your fears.

There maybe lots of legitimate fears about flying to the moon. But if you have not flown to the moon, you get no say about what is on the moon. You chose to not experience the moon.

And of course all fear stems directly from ego. So you fell into the trap of letting the devil dictate your inquiry into truth. And so the very thing you feared: delusion, you have made real.

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That would be fear.

Yes, you can certainly have that fear. But truth doesn't care about your fears.

There maybe lots of legitimate fears about flying to the moon. But if you have not flown to the moon, you get no say about what is on the moon. You chose to not experience the moon.

And of course all fear stems directly from ego. So you fell into the trap of letting the devil dictate your inquiry into truth. And so the very thing you feared: delusion, you have made real.

That would be fear.

Yes, you can certainly have that fear. But truth doesn't care about your fears.

Don't you think you can legitimately don't want to use psychedelics to awaken, without this to be fear based ?

Without demonizing them or thinking they are useless too of course, just not using them.

[Anton Rogachevski]

Nothing you experience is real. Normal or psychedelic.

Nothing is real, and nothing is unreal, these are binary categories of the mind.

If you hit my toe, I would feel pain, but what does it prove? In a dream, if one hits his toe he also feels pain.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Anton Rogachevski

[Lynnel]

10 minutes ago, Shin said:

Don't you think you can legitimately don't want to use psychedelics to awaken, without this to be fear based ?

Without demonizing them or thinking they are useless too of course, just not using them.

You would be insane to pass such a big opportunity.

Even if you don't use them to awaken, using them for psychological benefits is something you shoudn't pass on.

They're imho the best personnal development tool available - as strong as you need to, naturally adapted to your needs, fast-acting , with permanent effects and they SCALE with your level of development.  Like what else would you want ?

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Shin said:

Don't you think you can legitimately don't want to use psychedelics to awaken, without this to be fear based ?

Without demonizing them or thinking they are useless too of course, just not using them.

That is possible, but you will remain clueless about the domain of psychedelics and what they can or cannot do for you.

The core problem here is that you are judging a thing (assuming what it can or cannot do for you) without any direct emprical evidence.

It's a kin to a white person saying: "I don't want to talk to black people because they have nothing to offer me." Well, you don't know that until you actually talk to some. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[Key Elements]

@DarjeelingTea This topic keeps coming up here from time to time.  It's a good topic, btw, and a very hard one to answer. Thanks for bringing it up. Remember this quote because it does cause radical open-mindedness:

Two things to consider because it's been discussed many times and on Leo's videos.

#1. 5meo can cause the experience of the no-self (nothingness) if done properly. This is the first argument. Work with mushrooms and other lighter psychedelics and work your way up to stronger doses before experimenting with 5meo.

#2. Those who have not been the no-self (nothingness) will not understand what's it like to become the no-self without the psychedelics.

[Jack River]

Experience is both real and unreal. Truth is not comprehended by experience. 

Truth comprehends the totality of the real and the unreal(experience). 

Reality doesn’t comprehend truth, truth comprehends reality. 

The self, it’s practices, techniques, systems, knowledge/experience, and the selfs cumulative experiences(pleasurable/mystical), it’s progression/cultivation/ psychological evolution are all born of reality with its inherent limitation striving towards the unlimited. 

All a distortion to employ limitation to transcend that very limitation.

The question of psychedelics or no psychedelics is all part of the game of reality. The game of self/ego(psychological evolution). 

Stepping out of the river of time does not depend on time which involves all reality’s distortions. 

In comprehending the totality of reality there is simply a stepping out of the field. The understanding/comprehension is the action of stepping out of that field/river. 

The action of stepping out is truth.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack River

[Shadowraix]

It's easy to dismiss drugs like psychedelics as fake hallucinatory experiences but the problem is your default state of being is no different. It's just most of life is configured in such a way where they have similarity in hallucinations to some degree. 

All experiences are legitimate and authentic. To determine what is and isn't useful for digging to see a more holistic outlook of reality requires contemplation and integration. 

Ego death taught me separation is a mental construction. But I didn't realize this until I found the concept of nonduality contemplated it and saw the link. 

[Key Elements]

Ok. For those of you who like to really pick on words, experience of the no-self = Truth. That's what I mean when I posted. Truth is not ego. 

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Shadowraix said:

It's easy to dismiss drugs like psychedelics as fake hallucinatory experiences but the problem is your default state of being is no different. 

One of my biggest surprises with psychedelics was that psychedelic reality is as real as the sober reality. Before using psychedelics, I thought the sober reality was the normal one and psychedelics were an “alrered” state of conscious. I thought I would temporarily enter a trippy mind state to gather info that could be used for my normal life.  To my surprise, they are both real or unreal. Overtime, the psychedelic real world and sober real world are growing closer together into an integrated holistic realness. 

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Jack River said:

The action of stepping out is truth.

Stepping out suggests there is something to step out of and something to step into. Truth has no separation. Truth cannot step outside of itself.

[Jack River]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Stepping out suggests there is something to step out of and something to step into.

I’m simply referring to time. Putting reality/thought/time in its right place. As function and not as all important. 

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Truth has no separation. Truth cannot step outside of itself.

Truth comprehends the limitation of reality. With this energy of truth/insight/action there is a seeing that reality is a function/part of actuality(What is) itself. 

Truth contains/holds reality. Truth is whole/undivided..there is no divison/separation at all. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack River

[Jack River]

As I said before..truth comprehends reality, reality doesn’t comprehend truth. 

To think otherwise is to assume that reality is WHAT IS and self(reality)  can know or experience the whole of WHAT IS.....this is not the case. 

This is thought/reality transcending it’s own implicit limitation. This is a fundamental distortion of reality itself. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

55 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Truth contains/holds reality. Truth is whole/undivided..there is no divison/separation at all. 

If Truth is whole, it does not contain reality. There would be no container to hold a separate thing.

[DarjeelingTea]

@Jack River What do mean by experience is both real and unreal?

[Jack River]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If Truth is whole, it does not contain reality. There is no container to hold a separate thing.

There is not really a separate thing. 

It’s all one. 

What I’m saying is in the sense that with this holistic insight/energy which is action/truth, that comprehends the whole (contains/holds) the whole of reality. 

A man/woman does not live in reality, reality lives in man/woman. We hold it. 

You see what I mean?

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

There is not really a separate thing. 

It’s all one. 

What I’m saying is in the sense that with this holistic insight/energy which is action/truth, that comprehends the whole (contains/holds) the whole of reality. 

A man/woman does not live in reality, reality lives in man/woman. We hold it. 

You see what I mean?

 

Yea. It sounds like a lot of parts in an integrated whole. That’s one perspective. 

Another perspective is simply whole without any distinctions. There is no thing that comprehends another thing. Even saying one word is saying too much.

[Jack River]

33 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It sounds like a lot of parts in an integrated whole.

Yeah I’m not suggesting seperation of reality. 

33 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Another perspective is simply whole without any distinctions

 

41 minutes ago, Jack River said:

It’s all one

 

33 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Even saying one word is saying too much.

That’s reality coming in and distorting what is.

As I mentioned before, a turning no-thing-ness to a thing. To thingify. This is what I was referring to in the other thread about experience. In reference to registration/recollection(memory)

Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

6 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Stepping out suggests there is something to step out of and something to step into. Truth has no separation. Truth cannot step outside of itself.

It could also be described as an expansion of perception

5 hours ago, DarjeelingTea said:

@Jack River What do mean by experience is both real and unreal?

how the mind interprets reality creates experience, therefore it is real to the mind but limited by the interpretation