Final inquiry (for 'experienced' seekers)

[Emanyalpsid]

I opened this topic to see if someone is willing/daring to test this inquiry. To understand the foundation of the inquiry, you must be beyond the subject-object consciousness (that is why I wrote 'experienced' seekers), which means you must know that we are not looking for words, although the realizations can be put in words. So the point from which you venture should be, that you are left with consciousness and nothing else. Whether you call this consciousness Brahman, non-duality, or absolute infinity, doesn't matter, it has no name, but it is there. You experience it.

The inquiry has two questions on which you should find an answer. The order of the questions is sequential, so you start with the first question and if you have an answer on that, you start with the second question. If you have completed the inquiry you will understand why it is final. So you look into this consciousness without a name, you don't look for a word in thought. You look into the experience, what is happening. You can describe it and summarize it to form an answer.

The first question; What is conciousness?

 

The last question; What is?

 

If you didn't find the right answer to the first question, you will end up back at the first question if you answer the second question.

 

Material to help you with the inquiry can be found here; https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/30407-liberation-from-samsara/

I am glad to help in the best way I can.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Preetom]

@Emanyalpsid

After one has clearly seen through the illusion of perception aka subject-object consciousness, the very term 'consciousness/awareness' becomes redundant. Consciousness? As opposed to what?

Ta da!

Now talk all you may from there. Where are you going, bro?

Edited January 16, 2019 by Preetom

[Emanyalpsid]

Are you consciousness, absolute infinity, or Brahman?

[Preetom]

Just now, Emanyalpsid said:

Are you consciousness, absolute infinity, or Brahman?

No. To call oneself as that is already saying one thing too much.

[Emanyalpsid]

But do you exist experience out of consciousness, absolute infinity, or Brahman, without calling it that?

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Preetom]

5 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

But do you exist out of consciousness, absolute infinity, or Brahman, without calling it that?

Why do you persist on naming that which is?

After the disillusionment of subject-object consciousness, there can be no distinction or duality or category like inside vs outside, existence vs non-existence, awareness vs unawareness, life vs death etc.

Any thing said from there is really nothing but non sense. So let me just shut up here. Take care!

Edited January 16, 2019 by Preetom

[Emanyalpsid]

 

Quote

Why do you persist on naming that which is?

@Preetom

What is? If something is, there is clinging. So, it is not about naming, but about identifying (without naming).

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[SoonHei]

Lose the " I " who seeks or searches or asks questions...

Just watch it... Watch it until it disappears.

 

Nonduality . . . the myth

Apparently . . .

Although there is no such thing as nonduality it seems that there are many different ideas about what it could be.

Because the separate seeker experiences everything as a subject object reality it is inevitable that it will see nonduality as a something that can be personally attained and experienced. It will also be seen as a state of no-self that can be taught or energetically transferred.

Attempts are made to use the idea of nonduality as a description of the unknown?

It is often talked about as a something that needs to be integrated, nurtured and supported?

There are even conferences held about its evolutionary development and its possible outcome in another something called the future?

It is amazing how many different beliefs and theories can arise about nothing.

The term nonduality is just that. It is a term similar to Advaita, and refers to the concept of “not two”. The idea of there being “not two” is attempting to define a mystery. The mystery cannot be named or known, of course, but there are certain descriptions which get somewhere near: the formless form, the relative absolute, the empty fullness or what is and is not, which all defy definition and make no sense.

All of these ideas are immediately rejected by the separate seeker who is entirely invested in its own survival and seeks an answer that will satisfy its own experience of reality.

Empty fullness cannot be taught or experienced, for how and where would it be found if it is already all there is? Where would there be a place to stand and know or be aware of nothing and everything?

However, isn’t it wonderful that the dualistic confusion which surrounds something called nonduality is already empty fullness.

-- Tony Parsons; February 2018

[ajasatya]

no questions and no answers...

[Emanyalpsid]

14 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

no questions and no answers...

Indeed the answer follows out of the question, but can you answer them? If you have no more questions you must know everything, or you do not want to gain wisdom.

Now you are just stating the obvious to let us know you are there. 

So, what is? What typed your post?

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Amun]

4 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Indeed the answer follows out of the question, but can you answer them? If you have no more questions you must know everything, or you do not want to gain wisdom.

Now you are just stating the obvious to let us no you are there. 

So, what is? What typed your post?

At least in Zen practice such questions are unanswered. As soon as you "know" the answer, that isn't the answer anymore. I'm paraphrasing from Tao Te Ching: The path that can be followed is not the true path, the name that can be given is not the true name. The unnameable is the mother of 10.000 things. 

In Zen practice, at least in beginner practices we breathe in and ask what am i, breathe out and say I don't know. Not knowing is the key

Edited January 16, 2019 by Amun
Typo

[Emanyalpsid]

That is why I said it is not about looking for words or answers, but about identifying what is.

The questions are not conceptual, but to start the inquiry.

But what is found, can be put in words, if understood.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[ajasatya]

12 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

ndeed the answer follows out of the question, but can you answer them? If you have no more questions you must know everything, or you do not want to gain wisdom.

Now you are just stating the obvious to let us know you are there. 

So, what is? What typed your post?

the sun rises and the birds sing.

what is there to know?

i want to cook a good rice.

[Amun]

1 minute ago, Emanyalpsid said:

That is why I said it is not about looking for words or answers, but about identifying what is.

The questions are not conceptual, but to start the inquiry.

But what is found, can be put in words, if understood.

I don't understand what you mean by identifying? Identifying sounds like knowing what it is to me

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

the sun rises and the birds sing.

what is there to know?

i want to cook a good rice.

Don't we all

[ajasatya]

ah, here's a good one:

rain and then snow, what's there to know?
i want to laugh and read bashō!

[Emanyalpsid]

16 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

the sun rises and the birds sing.

what is there to know?

i want to cook a good rice.

What sun, what birds?

[ajasatya]

5 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

What sun, what birds?

from perceptions to memory
from memory to organized letters
how wonderful!

[Emanyalpsid]

20 minutes ago, Amun said:

I don't understand what you mean by identifying? Identifying sounds like knowing what it is to me

Yes, but this is on a formless level. But if realized, can be put into words.

[Preetom]

21 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Yes, but this is on a formless level. But if realized, can be put into words.

1)then those words become the real thing?

2) if it is not spoken about, does that 'realization'' get invalidated?

Edited January 16, 2019 by Preetom

[Emanyalpsid]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

from perceptions to memory
from memory to organized letters
how wonderful!

Let's not drop into subject-object level. My question was directed to your experience, where do your sun and birds come from?