Banning Any Critique on Actualized.Org?

[Toby]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For example, no serious teacher would make the core of his teaching the bashing of other teachers.

That is not necessarily true. There are different teaching strategies. For example, if someone has an approach like UG Krishnamurti or Karl Renz the "bashing" (or making fun of) includes almost everything and everyone. "Unconditional hate" as Karl likes to say.

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Toby said:

That is not necessarily true. There are different teaching strategies. For example, if someone has an approach like UG Krishnamurti or Karl Renz the "bashing" (or making fun of) includes almost everything and everyone. "Unconditional hate" as Karl likes to say.

That is not masterful teaching. That kind of polarized teaching style does a disservice to students, as it makes them ideological and emotionally reactive. Teachers who teach like that are themselves not fully developed & conscious.

I myself have had to back off that style as I become more conscious. It is a disservice to you guys. Because in truth, there is no one to blame for anything. Everyone is doing their best, even terrorists, Nazis, psychopaths, and cult leaders. They cannot help being who they are and the proper response to their situation is understanding and compassion, not hate or ridicule.

For example, I've wanted to shoot a rant video against JP for a long time now. But I hold myself back because I would rather take the high road. Even though a rant video against JP would get me lots of views and clicks and approval -- it would also make you guys more ideological against him and distract from doing the inner work. So I bite my tongue.

You see, the ego's whole game is to get you to avoid doing the inner work by any means possible. So ego loves to externalize the problem and make it about something "out there" -- some teacher, some teaching, some other group of people, some culture war issue, some political scandal, some latest outrage -- anything to avoid self-reflection.

I have no interest in getting into public battles with anyone or defending my work. I just want to work on myself and be creative without any justifications for my work. My work speaks for itself. If you find my work useful, then use it. If not, then leave and pursue other things. Telling me you disagree with my work is unnecessary. I know better than most of you the flaws and limitations of my own work. I don't need guidance from a random cocky Youtuber who does not know anything about me. I get my internal guidance from a much higher quality, non-human source.

And in the end if you feel my guidance is bad or wrong, don't follow me. I am not here to be right, or perfect, or the Buddha, or your daddy figure. From the very beginning the only function of Actualized.org was to catalogue various insights that I have that I find interesting. That's all this is. There is no pretense to Truth in my teachings since all teachings are concepts and by definition partial and untrue.

Anything that you hear me say is ultimately nonsense. It was that way from day one, and it could not be otherwise. From the very beginning my work is was meant to be self-effacing. Like a snake eating its own tail, such that in the end, nothing remains.

[TheAvatarState]

If any of you are thinking, "But Leooooo, you bash Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson all the time in your talks! Does that make you a hypocrite?" then try to understand that he never goes out of his way to bash other teachers, it is only to prove a point related to his topic, and to help inoculate you from ideology. If you look at it honestly, Leo has never shut a post down merely for being critical of his work.

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura indeed engaging in a rant like that would only hinder your own development as well as others listening   I can see you are  becoming more conscious even in the last few months.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

"But Leooooo, you bash Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson all the time in your talks! Does that make you a hypocrite?"

If you think it's bad now, you have no idea how bad the bashing would be if I really let loose

I have never properly bashed them. So far I've only made minor counterpoints to stave off very basic ignorance that I see some of my viewers have learned from them.

In the end, they cannot help being exactly who they are. So what would be the point of my ranting?

[TheAvatarState]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

If you think it's bad now, you have no idea how bad the bashing would be if I really let loose

We know you love to hear yourself talk

[Azote]

11 hours ago, ajasatya said:

i watched that video and it's the kind of video that can trigger internal anguish and conflict.

there are several fragile people who come here looking for help. that's certainly not the kind of content that can help those who need help the most.

Yeah, much more dangerous than advising to get enlightened to cure depression for example  

[CreamCat]

It seems to me that TJ just likes to criticize. Let him criticize Leo and other spiritual teachers on his own venues.

Edited January 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[MM1988]

I give Leo the benefit of the doubt and think hes just an authentic dude whos geniunly interrested in spirituality and existential questions. His left brained way of thinking just happened to resonate really well with me, but I understand that it can seem a bit "off" to the average person.

But even if he's not, the value of the teachings is still there and it can all be researched and traced back, its not a made up belief system like scientology. Its better not to get involved too much in the forum and the drama that emerges from these communities.

[Shin]

2 hours ago, CreamCat said:

It seems to me that TJ just likes to criticize. Let him criticize Leo and other spiritual teachers on his own venues.

If he wasn't he would see he's bullshitting himself for years.

Eventually he will see that, I hope for him.

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, Shin said:

If he wasn't he would see he's bullshitting himself for years.

Eventually he will see that, I hope for him.

Perhaps, Leo could call TJ Reeves and talk for an hour or two. TJ seemed unnecessarily critical of Leo.

[andyjohnsonman]

Can someone post a link of TJ's video or tell me who he is as every time I search on youtube to find this person a video comes up with 233 views I'm guessing that cant be the person who is causing such a stir?

[Emanyalpsid]

20 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I didn’t view that thread.

I only mentioned a few forms of criticism. There is also irrelevant criticism, nonsense criticism and others. 

Anyone who has been in a close relationship with a hyper-critical person knows the nuances of criticism. 

As well, working in a career that receives a lot of criticism reveals various dinstinctions. My career involves about 100 wriiten critiques of my performance each year. Some of it is thoughtful, genuine and constructive. Some of it is not useful and can be a distraction from the job at hand.

Yet, most minds think that *their* criticism of others is super important, accurate and relevant. 

But you know it is only you who makes this distinction.

The thing is that Leo cannot check himself, he needs the community to do this for him. You can only look from the inside to the outside, not from the outside within. This would not be a problem if the community was the whole mankind. Like if everybody in the world would be on this forum, then the bullshit would not prevail.

But this forum is only a small sample of humanity, interested in a specific direction. Besides this, not everybody here has a stable mind and are more easy to manipulate. So I get that Leo can't allow all criticism and closes some topics (someone has to control this beast), but it is important that topics such as this are allowed so that concerns are able to be discussed, in order for Leo to reflect upon. The bigger the community grows, the less important it becomes. The community will then take this role over. Because this is still a relatively small community, it is quite important. If Leo doesn't reflect honestly, then we have a problem.

At this moment, to me, he seems like a honest guy on a path. He is doing the work. He is human so he can make mistakes, it depends on us if we forgive him or not.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Michael569]

9 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said:

Can someone post a link of TJ's video or tell me who he is as every time I search on youtube to find this person a video comes up with 233 views I'm guessing that cant be the person who is causing such a stir?

thats the guy. He is not particularly popular on youtube. In my opinion (from couple videos I watched) he is a narcicistic psychopath and I can't understand all the fuss about him but perhaps I am being too closeminded for his teachings. 

[bejapuskas]

@Michael569 He makes videos performing squats in the gym, that is a way more attractive environment, than Leo's black room, he is very masculine, analytical and strong, which appeals to young men and he is very proud of his company, he thinks, that it can solve all of our problems just by showing some numbers, so he makes it seem like it has no mistake at all... This all seems awesome, if you don't think about it.  I also had a videocall with him and 2 of his business partners and they are all very friendly people, they motivate you to do the work and they help you to realize what you want and it all ACTUALLY makes sense, they don't even criticize Leo that much, when you talk 1 on 1 with them. But then they make a video like that from this week and you go like whaaaat, they are saying something different everytime you hear them talking. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by bejapuskas

[Haloman]

TJ obviously has amazing insights and original ideas which i've never heard before. He understands that and wants to spread those ideas much wider, but he can't get eyeballs. So for him the easier way seems to recruit actualized.org viewers. For us the best option would be if he cooperates with Leo. But unfortunately our teachers have EGO just like everybody else 

[Preetom]

Out of thousands of people that follow Actualized, few grow up feeding Leo's contents and motivation, become some zen devil at some point, then come back to bite Leo's ass and leech off Actualized.org to further promote their agendas.

oh such irony

Don't come fighting your daddy who made you sonny  

[VictorB02]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Then again, often these people display their egotism in very obvious ways. For example, no serious teacher would make the core of his teaching the bashing of other teachers. That's an obvious red flag. That's ego reaction, not genuine teaching. People who spend a lot of their time and energy criticizing other teachers or teachings automatically reveal their own lack of consciousness

Thats what I thought

If the YouTube channel, forum, blog, etc. you've started involves any type of talking sh*t, then you are definitely  not motivated by love/creativity, you're motivated by ego/attention. Seems like a very obvious thing to ban these types of people when they show up here.

Edited January 16, 2019 by VictorB02

[Shin]

9 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

Thats what I thought

If the YouTube channel, forum, blog, etc. you've started involves any type of talking sh*t, then you are definitely  not motivated by love/creativity, you're motivated by ego/attention. Seems like a very obvious thing to ban these types of people when they show up here.

 

You're just a tiny white racist guy who can't get laid, come to my coral level bro !!!

[Elisabeth]

@Shroomdoctor I have a facebook group and meetups for 22 people, all basically my friends with interest in self-actualization, everyone highly intelligent, educated, kind, capable of critical thinking and out of their teens (and modest, LOL :D).

In the short time (4 months) I'm doing this, I had to decide on little issues like: 'Let everyone invite their friends to the group, or should I approve new members?', and 'Should I delete this fun distraction from the facebook page, or let it stand? If I do delete it, is it abuse of power?', and  'Should I set rules, like not letting in people who come late to the meetings?' 

I became very conscious of competing principles: The need for spontaneity, vs. the need for structure; The need for free expression vs. the need to stay on topic; The need to allow people to co-create the community vs. the need to keep it to my vision; even the need for freedom vs. my needs of comfort running the group (because ultimately, if I let the project expand beyond my limits, I can't lead it and it will likely die, which won't really benefit the people in it).

Ultimately you have to make decisions that keep the project aligned with your vision, even if you piss some people off. 

I'm writing this just to say: It must be incredibly hard to set the correct kind of guidelines for the actualized.org forum, and to decide whether these were broken or not. There will be some threshold Leo has for valid vs. manipulative criticism. We can disagree with him on individual cases. 

I understand though that perhaps a few of them have added up for you to let the forum atmosphere seem off. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Elisabeth