Pickup is being criminalized

[Consept]

@Emerald Just to say i respect a lot of what you have to say, you actually give a real insight into being a female. I dont agree with everything you say but i appreciate your perspective and how its communicated 

[Shin]

8 minutes ago, Consept said:

@Emerald Just to say i respect a lot of what you have to say, you actually give a real insight into being a female. I dont agree with everything you say but i appreciate your perspective and how its communicated 

Proof that you can't subtly advertise your content on the forum.

Just don't be a cultish dick who criticize everyone ?

[billiesimon]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

Well, most of my issues are issues of identity and extend far beyond the realm of romance and dating, which is something that I don't feel like a lot of men grasp because it's such a uniquely female issue. Most men tend to think of these sexual issues as being only sexual. But these are not just bedroom worries. These are feelings that I carry with me everywhere and they pepper my relationship to myself and where I believe my personal value lies and what my purpose is. And it becomes all the clearer as I get further and further removed from my maiden's phase. It's a feeling like I exist only for the pleasure of another and if I can't be that then I'm nothing. So, I've internalized this idea that I'm only entitled to desire and existence itself if I am even more desired back. 

But in regard to a situation where I really like a guy, I choose not to ask him out because the stakes are too high. I only like one guy at a time and those attractions tend to last about 6 months or more and they're really intense. So, if I ask him out and get a "no", then I (number one) will feel like I'm no longer entitled to my feelings of attraction because they aren't reciprocated, and (number two) I'd have to wait six months or more before I stumble into another attraction. So, men are not interchangeable for me in the way that women are interchangeable for men in the initial stages of attraction. So, I don't approach for fear of rejection and the implications of that. 

Also, there are a lot of situations that I've gotten into when I was very new to dating and romance that I really got hurt in sharing my feelings or being "too forward" which is a consideration that women always have to contend with... or face the unsavory consequences. A lot of men will hate you for everything they love you for. They want you to be easy and sexual, but they'll hate you when they're done with you.

Once, when I was in the eighth grade, I really liked this kid named Nathan and we were always flirting in class and I thought he liked me back. And at the time, I thought men and women got attractions in the same way. So, I thought his feelings toward me were mutual. And he asked me if I wanted to ask at around the same time to get a hall pass from the teacher and meet him somewhere to make out for a few minutes. And I excitedly agreed as it seemed like a confirmation that he really liked me like I liked him... because why else would he want to kiss me if he didn't. But it turned out that it was just a joke, and he then used that as an opportunity to make fun of me and slut shame me. And he involved several of his friends in on the joke that was intended only to embarrass me. 

Also, the same year, I was asked out by a boy named Robert, and I was so happy to be going out with him and that he liked me back. But my friend Joe, overheard him in class talking about how gross and slutty I am and that he actually hates me but wanted to get with me because I was easy. Now, I poured chocolate milk on Joe's head in the lunchroom when he told me because I didn't believe him because I didn't want to believe him. So, I definitely shot the messenger on that one.

And when I was in the ninth grade, I was no longer so eager to get a boyfriend because I'd kind of learned my lesson about that. But I was still very flirtatious in demeanor as this is (was) my natural way. So, a lot of guys in my friend group would take that as an invitation to touch me inappropriately and go over my boundaries. We were a bunch of weird alternative kids and we always celebrated Wednesdays as "hump" day, where we'd just go up to eachother in the spirit of good fun and start humping one another and we also hugged a lot. But quite a few guys would violate the etiquette of hump day and make it genuinely sexual when it was not actually meant to be. And one guy in particular would violate the etiquette of the hugs and would make the hug with me in particular, too long and would caress my back with his fingers, so that ever time I hugged him I would feel very violated. 

And then a lot of girls would be very mean to me and slut shame me because I hung out with a lot of guys despite the fact that I was actually quite reserved in terms of actually dating anyone. 

And this is not even to mention, the type of attention I would get from full grown adult men... which was very uncomfortable.

The fact of the matter is that being a woman, your sexuality from puberty onward has been commodified and appraised. Your sexuality is a high dollar item. And much of society sees that it is merely a commodity to be used up by men, who are the assumed subjects of the transaction where you are the thing being transacted. 

So, there is a lot of wounding a baggage around owning your own sexuality as a woman. It's like taking a swim in lemon juice when you have a bunch of wounds on you.

So, the experience of being a woman is quite schizophrenic relative to your own sexuality, as there is no space for you to really hold your sexual feelings and be accepted... except perhaps in more progressive circles. Men want you to be forward, and then hate you for being forward. Other women will be jealous as well and hate you for simply being women. The media sends all kinds of messages (especially back when I was coming up) that the world loves an openly sexy and sexual woman, and as a child dreaming of growing up and growing breasts and being appreciated in the same way. And then, when getting to that age, realizing that society loves you for that and wants you to be only that... but also, if you become that, you become a laughing stock and the butt of a joke. 

So, I learned around age 15, to put on a facade of non-sexuality and the facade works well to keep out unwanted attention. And I still keep it, because I don't want anyone over my boundaries. And it's kept in place by the memory of many traumas incurred along the way. But it keeps away what is genuine and open, and impedes my ability to feel like it's okay to have my own desires as I've internalized since birth the idea that I am object and not subject. And that if I take my sexuality as a subject and go toward what I would want more freely, there is punishment awaiting. 

So, it is not as simple as that. Men can freely be sexual and own their sexuality. There is no shame in having sexual feelings as a man because hyper sexuality is expected and even desired. But a woman will be judged harshly for her sexuality and slut shamed if she is perceived as too forward. And it can lead to a lot of unsavory experiences. So, most women learn to suppress and to just be a lady in waiting and do our best to work around the invisible barriers that men don't see. 

But what I love is when I'm attracted to a man who doesn't have any of this baggage and doesn't project onto my images of succubi when I like him. And in these cases, things flow naturally and I can actually let go of those cares. And I get a really clear sense for who is afflicted and who is unafflicted. 

 

 

Thank you for sharing such personal stories. I'm sorry it went this way 

It doesn't have to be this way. Especially slut shaming makes no logic sense at all. It's just a complete logic fallacy. If someone likes an openminded girl he should be openminded too. I've never been a judge of sexuality and I've always wondered what's wrong with wanting a sexy girl and at the same time shaming her. Either you want a sexy/seducing woman or you don't.

These are the people who are causing so much trouble between the sexes, ruining childhood and sexuality for girls (and some boys too, to be honest). 

At least I'm happy that you have found your way to personal development and rediscovered the path to your femininity.

I believe that when this hysterical nonsense of sex-shaming in general ends... we will finally have peace within ourselves and between genders.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

Thank you for sharing such personal stories. I'm sorry it went this way 

It doesn't have to be this way. Especially slut shaming makes no logic sense at all. It's just a complete logic fallacy. If someone likes an openminded girl he should be openminded too. I've never been a judge of sexuality and I've always wondered what's wrong with wanting a sexy girl and at the same time shaming her. Either you want a sexy/seducing woman or you don't.

These are the people who are causing so much trouble between the sexes, ruining childhood and sexuality for girls (and some boys too, to be honest). 

At least I'm happy that you have found your way to personal development and rediscovered the path to your femininity.

I believe that when this hysterical nonsense of sex-shaming in general ends... we will finally have peace within ourselves and between genders.

Unfortunately, the phenomenon of slut-shaming and invalidation of female sexual desire and sexual subjecthood is not so easy to transcend as making a conscious decision to do so, since it's rooted deeply in the very structure of the current paradigm that we've all been indoctrinated into... which is also the glue of meaning that keeps our social structures running.

So, if you think of deconstructing a paradigm individually or collectively, it's a lot like playing Jenga. The blocks have to be in a very particular formation for certain other blocks to be removed without collapsing the entire tower. And the way the tower has been structured thus far, it has maintained suppression of female sexuality as being necessary for that tower to remain in tact and not topple over. But I think that will change soon and we'll be able to remove that block without disturbing order.

Female sexuality and female sexual subjectification is subversive to the status quo by its very nature, as it allows a direct channel of feminine libidinal energy (which is lateral and diffuse) to have an effect on society which softens the iron-clad constraints of the hierarchical structures of present day which are constructed through masculine libidinal energy in a very polar and mutually exclusive way.

So, given the fact that I still struggle with these limitations despite nearly a decade of inner work on these issues (and the fact that it would profoundly benefit me as a woman to get rid of these limitations), it's very clear to me that this issue is complex and not so simply solved as to just make the decision.

This is a HUGE scale issue... as it stems off of an issue of Yin and Yang imbalance in general which has more to do with the collective consciousness than the personal conscious. That is why so much Feminism, Anti-Feminism, gender questions, and all kinds of other things masculine/feminine are brandishing themselves as the zeitgeist of our current time. Even the current battles between left and right are really just battles between people who are pro-integration of the Divine Feminine and anti-integration of the Divine Feminine... though few of them realize it because of the left/right dichotomy that they employ as a framework for understanding. And this belief in the validity of partisan thinking creates many blind-spots and distortions by making us think these sides are just chance opinions floating around in the ether when there is a really clear order emerging in both perspectives.

The intention to transcend slut shaming and all the dynamics that it grows from is however, very important and it is a great start. But I've been in it long enough to know that these issues have no simple solutions since they cross over so many psycho-sexual instincts, gender dynamics, politics, the fodder of the esoteric masculine/feminine relationship, and so many other things.

So, understand that you may not consciously slut shame or judge, which is better than deciding to do the opposite. But if you think about slut shaming as a plant, you could say deciding not to slut shame would be like cutting the plant whenever you start to see it sprout above ground. The seeds are still there and the soil is still conducive to it and the root systems are still there and connect to so many other plants that you may not even have considered. So, to focus only on the plant poking above ground is to lack the systemic thinking necessary to actually get rid of that problem. But we're all collectively in the process of transcending the soil and seeds that these ingrained patterns create. It's just a matter of becoming more conscious and aware and helping that process along.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Shin said:

Proof that you can't subtly advertise your content on the forum.

Just don't be a cultish dick who criticize everyone ?

You know what they say... You catch more cult members with Koolaid than with vinegar.  

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Consept said:

@Emerald Just to say i respect a lot of what you have to say, you actually give a real insight into being a female. I dont agree with everything you say but i appreciate your perspective and how its communicated 

Thank you.

[Shin]

39 minutes ago, Emerald said:

You know what they say... You catch more cult members with Koolaid than with vinegar.  

One more suscriber ?

Edited January 17, 2019 by Shin

[kev014]

@Emerald Really appreciate how open you've been with your story. Do you think slut shaming will ever really fully go away? It seems as though this is something that is evolutionary wired within both men and women. As a man, you want to be cautious that you don't raise another man's baby. As a woman, you don't want to seem promiscuous, and thus untrustworthy for then men will not want you. 

Clearly there are some serious issues between masculinity and femininity that need to be worked out. I believe most of this is just a collective mirroring of issues held within most individuals i.e. most men and women have not healthily integrated both masculinity and femininity within their psyche. Women are 'afraid' of masculinity and men are 'afraid' of femininity. Seems to me that for society to evolve towards a healthier, more balanced existence we need to focus on our own personal integration. Many men deny their emotions and try to be rigid and stoic. The pendulum is swinging the other direction now, however. Its pretty clear to see that there are a lot of 'soft' men who have lost some of their masculine edge by venturing in to their feminine/emotional nature. They've become overly passive, lacking the assertiveness, confidence and purpose of mature masculinity.

On the other hand, there are a lot of women who would love nothing more than to be a nurturing, loving mother but are told that this is detrimental to the female cause, that this somehow enforces a patriarchal system. What if a woman just wants to be a mom and feels that thats why she is here on Earth? I agree with many of the tenants of feminism but this incredible weight placed on 'I'm a strong independent woman who don't need no man' seems to be causing some issues. Women can certainly have careers and masculine pursuits, but similar to men becoming overly 'soft' it seems as though many women are overly 'hard.' Many businesswomen are unable to turn work off and return back to the spontaneity, compassion, and connection that is the feminine. Both the softness and hardness in men and women are creating these plutonic, friend like relationships rather than a truly polarized, passionate one, hence the absurdly high rates of divorce and the rise of casual dating that is Tinder. Just some food for thought, figured you'd have some interesting thoughts on this.

[CreamCat]

Emerald says she doesn't like receiving too much sexual attention. But, whenever I hear about it, I become curious.

That sounds like something I haven't experienced. A new experience.

I want to live a year in the body of a 12 years old beautiful girl or a 25 years old sexy woman and feel what it's like to live as one and research how to maximally utilize what I have. It's always important to learn to utilize whatever you have. Perhaps, at the end of day, there will only be emptiness and existential hunger no matter what.

Edited January 18, 2019 by CreamCat

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, kev014 said:

@Emerald Really appreciate how open you've been with your story. Do you think slut shaming will ever really fully go away? It seems as though this is something that is evolutionary wired within both men and women. As a man, you want to be cautious that you don't raise another man's baby. As a woman, you don't want to seem promiscuous, and thus untrustworthy for then men will not want you. 

Clearly there are some serious issues between masculinity and femininity that need to be worked out. I believe most of this is just a collective mirroring of issues held within most individuals i.e. most men and women have not healthily integrated both masculinity and femininity within their psyche. Women are 'afraid' of masculinity and men are 'afraid' of femininity. Seems to me that for society to evolve towards a healthier, more balanced existence we need to focus on our own personal integration. Many men deny their emotions and try to be rigid and stoic. The pendulum is swinging the other direction now, however. Its pretty clear to see that there are a lot of 'soft' men who have lost some of their masculine edge by venturing in to their feminine/emotional nature. They've become overly passive, lacking the assertiveness, confidence and purpose of mature masculinity.

On the other hand, there are a lot of women who would love nothing more than to be a nurturing, loving mother but are told that this is detrimental to the female cause, that this somehow enforces a patriarchal system. What if a woman just wants to be a mom and feels that thats why she is here on Earth? I agree with many of the tenants of feminism but this incredible weight placed on 'I'm a strong independent woman who don't need no man' seems to be causing some issues. Women can certainly have careers and masculine pursuits, but similar to men becoming overly 'soft' it seems as though many women are overly 'hard.' Many businesswomen are unable to turn work off and return back to the spontaneity, compassion, and connection that is the feminine. Both the softness and hardness in men and women are creating these plutonic, friend like relationships rather than a truly polarized, passionate one, hence the absurdly high rates of divorce and the rise of casual dating that is Tinder. Just some food for thought, figured you'd have some interesting thoughts on this.

Thank you.

I do think slut shaming will mostly go away as we evolve as it stems not from something wired-in but as something adapted to.

Patriarchal societies throughout the ages on an esoteric level have a slant that pits the masculine against the feminine, and this translates to gender inequality as well as many other things that have little to do with gender relationships. And slut shaming and control of female sexuality and women's autonomy is part of the glue that helps those earlier types of societies together. The feminine is too subversive to be able to maintain the order in those earlier societies, as those times called for hyper masculine hardness from men and women alike and a direct antagonism toward the feminine principle to stay afloat. 

And if we look at the issue in the broader esoteric sense of the masculine and feminine principle, then we can get a better idea of what's going on than to localize our focus toward issues of gender, which is just one outgrowth of that imbalance.

So, it's important to understand that human societies evolve through various stages of development. One such model that you're probably familiar with is Spiral Dynamics.  So, the human system has predictable latent qualities as we "unlock" certain stages and bring them onto the landscape of collective consciousness. And you can see that society is generally going in a direction that explores these imbalances, which will continue on more and more subtle levels until it hits the roots of the issue. Currently society is still in the branches and not the roots but it's a start. 

Now, patriarchy is quite natural for human beings up until we start transitioning out of small agrarian societies and into industrial and eventually post-industrial societies. It is during this transitions that patriarchal structures that were previously positive for us as a species and reach a point of diminishing returns, and they start being negative for us as a species. This is also why Feminism came about when it did. As soon as the constraints loosened in our transition toward industrial living as opposed to agrarian living, this freed up space in collective consciousness for women to start owning some autonomy.

To understand this, you have to understand that up until very recently in human history (and this still is happening in many parts of the world) humanity's main struggle was man against nature. So, esoterically speaking there was a constant challenge for society to apply its masculine technology and innovations (limited as they were) to try to dominate feminine nature and shape it to our needs. So, this was always the challenge because nature (feminine) was so powerful and unpredictable that we had to strive and fight with all our energy and human innovations to survive. And it happened quite often that people would succumb to the feminine devouring Mother Nature. The feminine disaster is to succumb to the forces of nature in the form of natural disasters, diseases, famine, and the like. The destructive feminine devours.

So, this naturally created an antagonistic relationship between humanity and nature. But as we grew and evolved, our masculine skills and technologies became more and more powerful with every coming patriarchal society. The nature of patriarchy is technological and ideological growth and hierarchical human order. 

But something has happened since we unlocked industrialization and moved away from agrarian societies. And that is that our masculine power now is an existential threat to the feminine planet. We have dominated Mother Nature so much, that we could blow it all away in one day with our nuclear power alone. And with all the CO2 in the atmosphere, we have pushed things so far to the masculine pole that we risk a total return to the feminine where Mother Nature simply devours our entire species. 

So, this has never happened before in the history of the planet. We have gotten to a point where the patriarchal growth that has served us so well in past societies, has now become a cancerous kind of growth. The destructive masculine is cancerous, which is the opposite pole relative to destruction to the devouring feminine I mentioned earlier.

So, there is dire need to integrate the feminine and bring the current masculine system into harmony with it, otherwise we may not make it as a species. One such way to do this would be to bring masculine human technology into harmony with nature, so that our technology works with nature instead of against it. So, we have to change the patriarchal 'man against nature' idea to 'man in cooperation with and in service to nature'.

But there is also a need on the human level to integrate the esoteric feminine more into its value structure, which we see a lot of political issues that ultimately center around this. Like I said, it looks like a battle of left and right but it's actually a battle between those that want to keep the current polarly esoterically masculine-oriented society and those that want to integrate the feminine principle.

So, you'll notice that the current group of people who are pro-integration of the feminine principle are very focused toward body positivity and ending the stigma around the free expression of female sexuality as well as allowing for a more fluid view of sexuality and gender identity as well. All of these things would really need to be in place to end slut shaming. And as far as your concern about paternity, humanity has long invented paternity tests, and this is also part of our nature progression. Masculine human innovation helps carve the path for the integration of the feminine in just this way.

Since dishwashers, washing machines, store-bought clothes, pre-packaged and pre-made food, plumbing, and automatic faucets that bring water directly into your home now exist, housework no longer has to occupy a woman's life 16 hours out of a 24 hour day. So, this is masculine technology freeing up more space for the feminine. Now that birth control and paternity tests exist, this frees up more space for freer expression of feminine sexuality without the need to worry about it undermining social order. Since we have created a lot of ways to make life less difficult and less single-pointedly focused on survival, masculine technology has freed up more space for feminine creativity, feminine emotional intelligence, and feminine stillness.

So, technology allows us to unlock these feminine potentials. But technology also necessitates that we integrate these feminine potential or we won't make it. 

So, if we make it through this integration of masculine human social order and technology with feminine nature, then a marriage will happen between the two and we flourish as a species and nature will flourish as well. 

But if we don't, we will push things ever more masculine until eventually the feminine reclaims us all. 

 

[Toby]

@Emerald I vaguely remember that you were a school teacher. You know, education system is very important... do you also see kindergarten and elementary school as "patriarchical" or is it rather "matriarchical"? (My impression was it is more like the female energy is supported and masculine suppressed during that stages of development.)

[billiesimon]

20 hours ago, Emerald said:

Unfortunately, the phenomenon of slut-shaming and invalidation of female sexual desire and sexual subjecthood is not so easy to transcend as making a conscious decision to do so, since it's rooted deeply in the very structure of the current paradigm that we've all been indoctrinated into... which is also the glue of meaning that keeps our social structures running.

So, if you think of deconstructing a paradigm individually or collectively, it's a lot like playing Jenga. The blocks have to be in a very particular formation for certain other blocks to be removed without collapsing the entire tower. And the way the tower has been structured thus far, it has maintained suppression of female sexuality as being necessary for that tower to remain in tact and not topple over. But I think that will change soon and we'll be able to remove that block without disturbing order.

Female sexuality and female sexual subjectification is subversive to the status quo by its very nature, as it allows a direct channel of feminine libidinal energy (which is lateral and diffuse) to have an effect on society which softens the iron-clad constraints of the hierarchical structures of present day which are constructed through masculine libidinal energy in a very polar and mutually exclusive way.

So, given the fact that I still struggle with these limitations despite nearly a decade of inner work on these issues (and the fact that it would profoundly benefit me as a woman to get rid of these limitations), it's very clear to me that this issue is complex and not so simply solved as to just make the decision.

This is a HUGE scale issue... as it stems off of an issue of Yin and Yang imbalance in general which has more to do with the collective consciousness than the personal conscious. That is why so much Feminism, Anti-Feminism, gender questions, and all kinds of other things masculine/feminine are brandishing themselves as the zeitgeist of our current time. Even the current battles between left and right are really just battles between people who are pro-integration of the Divine Feminine and anti-integration of the Divine Feminine... though few of them realize it because of the left/right dichotomy that they employ as a framework for understanding. And this belief in the validity of partisan thinking creates many blind-spots and distortions by making us think these sides are just chance opinions floating around in the ether when there is a really clear order emerging in both perspectives.

The intention to transcend slut shaming and all the dynamics that it grows from is however, very important and it is a great start. But I've been in it long enough to know that these issues have no simple solutions since they cross over so many psycho-sexual instincts, gender dynamics, politics, the fodder of the esoteric masculine/feminine relationship, and so many other things.

So, understand that you may not consciously slut shame or judge, which is better than deciding to do the opposite. But if you think about slut shaming as a plant, you could say deciding not to slut shame would be like cutting the plant whenever you start to see it sprout above ground. The seeds are still there and the soil is still conducive to it and the root systems are still there and connect to so many other plants that you may not even have considered. So, to focus only on the plant poking above ground is to lack the systemic thinking necessary to actually get rid of that problem. But we're all collectively in the process of transcending the soil and seeds that these ingrained patterns create. It's just a matter of becoming more conscious and aware and helping that process along.

Definitely important to find the roots of the problem. I used to only cut the trunk of the plant, and felt just right at the time. Now it's time to go deeper. Great insight.

[billiesimon]

13 hours ago, Emerald said:

To understand this, you have to understand that up until very recently in human history (and this still is happening in many parts of the world) humanity's main struggle was man against nature. So, esoterically speaking there was a constant challenge for society to apply its masculine technology and innovations (limited as they were) to try to dominate feminine nature and shape it to our needs. So, this was always the challenge because nature (feminine) was so powerful and unpredictable that we had to strive and fight with all our energy and human innovations to survive. And it happened quite often that people would succumb to the feminine devouring Mother Nature. The feminine disaster is to succumb to the forces of nature in the form of natural disasters, diseases, famine, and the like. The destructive feminine devours.

I find this post very magnetic to me. I really have a need to understand this, and I've also read a lot of books and material on the female mind too.

 

I realize that we had to empower the masculine essence to move out of the mud as a tribe. It was necessary, because aggression and the will to fight is the key factor that brought us out of the darkness and fear of the predators. In one of its forms, masculine essence is light and courage, and a sprint towards the future.

But apart from that... what I'm really wondering is... what would have happened if we as humans, since stage beige/early purple, decided to empower only the feminine essence in us and not the masculine?

What would happen if in history we humans moved up a feminine empowered Spiral, with a late reowning of the masculine? How does it look like in theory?

Edited January 18, 2019 by billiesimon

[Emerald]

9 hours ago, Toby said:

@Emerald I vaguely remember that you were a school teacher. You know, education system is very important... do you also see kindergarten and elementary school as "patriarchical" or is it rather "matriarchical"? (My impression was it is more like the female energy is supported and masculine suppressed during that stages of development.)

It could certainly be argued that the school setting is worse for elementary schools boys, since little boys tend to be very active and need a lot more physical activity than girls.

That said, on an esoteric level, the school system is still patriarchal because it runs off of masculine principled values at the expense of feminine principled values such as...

- Valuing the mind over the body

- Intellectual frameworks over pure perception

- Staying in man-made structures and keeping order, over the natural tendencies kids have to want to color outside the lines and play in mother nature (especially effects boys negatively)

- Wrote memorization over hands-on experiential learning

Also, the school system is very masculine because it prizes utility over beauty, and it quantifies performance and has very rigid standards to be taught. The intuiton, creativity, emotional intelligence, socialization, and relationships are not taught in school where obedience toward authority, hierarchical thinking, meritocracy, and excellence are prized. 

So, this is really the perfect example of how the esoteric masculine/feminine imbalance doesn't always have a one-to-one correlation to gender and can hurt men and boys as well as women and girls. 

This is why I recommend understanding the esoteric qualities ascribed to masculinity and femininity and to think of it more in the sense of Yin and Yang which informs but supercedes human gender, to get a clearer picture of why humanity is functioning the way that it is. 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, billiesimon said:

I find this post very magnetic to me. I really have a need to understand this, and I've also read a lot of books and material on the female mind too.

 

I realize that we had to empower the masculine essence to move out of the mud as a tribe. It was necessary, because aggression and the will to fight is the key factor that brought us out of the darkness and fear of the predators. In one of its forms, masculine essence is light and courage, and a sprint towards the future.

But apart from that... what I'm really wondering is... what would have happened if we as humans, since stage beige/early purple, decided to empower only the feminine essence in us and not the masculine?

What would happen if in history we humans moved up a feminine empowered Spiral, with a late reowning of the masculine? How does it look like in theory?

With Beige and Purple, there was both a reverence and a fear toward that feminine in general since we had such a love/hate relationship with nature.

And with feminine religions like various forms of paganism, religions found in Native American Tribes, and religions found in African tribes, there was always various spirits that resided in nature itself. The essence of the feminine religiosity is to see the divine as Earthly, and to respect the Earth as goddess. This is also reflected in that the feminine elements through various cultures are Earth and water while the masculine elements are air and fire. 

So, in feminine religions of early humans, there were a lot of sacrifices given to capricious gods and goddesses as well as the bi-polar great mother, who would bless you with a great crop one year and follow it up by two months of draught and flooding. So, because we were so intimately connected to the feminine, there was a great respect toward the feminine as well as a great hatred. And even though men likely ran those societies too, human beings were not so much in a vacuum away from various predators and the elements of nature. So, the hierarchy of man over woman was not as solidified because men and women when faced off against lions, tigers, bears, diseases, floods, and all sorts of other things that go bump in the night essentially stand about the same chance... which is next to 0.

So, until the Blue phase, patriarchy wasn't really in its strongest form. It was still coming up in power. Though Red was really where it started to gain traction and likely had the most rapid growth due to the raw aggression and leadership of the warlords of the time. But the foundation wasn't really properly set until Blue with the rise of institutions to uphold masculine principled values and to teach masculine principled religions that have a distant father figure God image that is perfect and immaculate and not Earthly, where the Earth is something to be transcended and is really just a test to see if you deserve the lofty airiness of Heaven or the firey suffering of Hell.

Then, once the Blue phase is transcended, we have set a foundation of hyper-masculinity which eventually gives way to a kind of secularity and neutrality so that we may not even recognize it in the current form that it takes on. Masculinity isn't recognized as masculinity because we sloughed off the religious language of the past. So, we have a lot of people who think they're being neutral when they're really adding to the imbalance of the masculine over the feminine.

But this is designed to build and build and build until we realize that something is wrong, and then there will be a lot of action in a short period of time to remedy the imbalance and integrate the masculine and feminine before something catastrophic happens. And this will invite many of our collective shadows onto the scene for the aware to face with them and the unaware to resist them and fight to maintain the status quo. And it seems to me that whichever side wins over will determine the fate of our species.  

But it could not be the case that society remained attached to the mother, as all birds must be pushed from the nest to test their wings. This is true ont he individual human level as well. Esoteric matriarchy is humanity's childhood and is primary to us as the feminine is always primary like the mother. Esoteric patriarchy is humanity's teenhood and is secondary and is when we learn to have an identity that is separate from the mother. Then, if we can make the leap from humanity's teenhood to humanity's adulthood, we can marry the esoteric masculine and esoteric feminine to one another and it will give birth to ever more exalted versions of humanity throughout the ages.

And this integration has been going on for about the past 100 years with many hiccups and resistances along the way of people wanting to keep the old esoterically patriarchal order. The archetypal defenders of the patriarchy unconsciously rise up whenever there is a time of great change to defend the status quo. And it is through them that those who are more aware can see a mirror to humanity's shadow and become even more aware, allowing us to integrate more.

So, unfortunately, the repression and mother wound of the rejection of the feminine is necessary for human growth and evolution in the earlier phases of humanity. And this pits us in an adversarial way toward nature, women, and femininity in general. And that is why women have been oppressed across cultures until very recently. It is unfortunate, but nature doesn't care about gender equality... only human beings do. The male black widow spider definitely gets the shittier end of the stick, and nature is absolutely fine with that. And it is the same story for women in Purple, Red, Blue, and Orange societies... but especially in Red and Blue. 

So, the suppression of the feminine is a function of the human system and not a dysfunction of the human system in earlier stages. But the same can be said, that gender equality and reintegration of the feminine is also a function of the human system at later stages in development. And once we are highly developed in a masculine way with regard to technological advancement, we cannot continue in a polarly patriarchal direction that suppresses the feminine and oppresses women without literally destroying the mother that feeds us.

 

[Forestluv]

On 1/17/2019 at 1:11 PM, Emerald said:

Well, most of my issues are issues of identity and extend far beyond the realm of romance and dating, which is something that I don't feel like a lot of men grasp because it's such a uniquely female issue. Most men tend to think of these sexual issues as being only sexual. But these are not just bedroom worries. These are feelings that I carry with me everywhere and they pepper my relationship to myself and where I believe my personal value lies and what my purpose is. And it becomes all the clearer as I get further and further removed from my maiden's phase. It's a feeling like I exist only for the pleasure of another and if I can't be that then I'm nothing. So, I've internalized this idea that I'm only entitled to desire and existence itself if I am even more desired back. 

Along these lines, I recently went on several dates with a woman that had chemistry. We went into these deep explorations of psychology and spirituality. We would go dancing and be spontaneous and free. We fooled around a bit and had strong physical chemistry. Buuuuut, I sensed energy of clutchiness and that I was "the one" that could heal previous wounds. I knew that she would not find what she was hoping to find in me and that if I continued with a physical relationship with her the emotional attachment would get stronger and she would get hurt. In a cafe, I told her this and that I really like her and don't want to hurt her. I said that although I was physically attracted to her, I can't go that route because I think she would get hurt. I also said I loved spending time with her and think we could develop a meaningful friendship. There was a moment of silence and then tears. As she cried, I felt bad yet knew it would only be worse if I continued in a sexual relationship with her. Then, she said something that revealed what I couldn't grasp. She said "Thank you, that is such a loving gesture. A man has never told me that before". She then told me all the men in her life saw her as a sexual object and I was the first man to put her welfare above personal sexual desires. As well, that I saw value in her and wanted to continue a relationship without sex. To me, the gesture was nothing special. Yet to her, it was a really big deal.

[zambize]

16 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Along these lines, I recently went on several dates with a woman that had chemistry. We went into these deep explorations of psychology and spirituality. We would go dancing and be spontaneous and free. We fooled around a bit and had strong physical chemistry. Buuuuut, I sensed very strong energy of neediness/cluchiness and that I was "the one" that would heal deep wounds. I knew that she would not find what she was hoping to find in me and that if I continued with a physical relationship with her the emotional attachment would get stronger and she would get hurt. In a cafe, I told her this and that I really like her and don't want to hurt her. I said that although I was physically attracted to her, I can't go that route because I think she would get hurt. I also said I loved spending time with her and think we could develop a meaningful friendship. There was a moment of silence and then tears. As she cried, I felt bad yet knew it would only be worse if I continued in a sexual relationship with her. Then, she said something that revealed what I couldn't grasp. She said "Thank you, that is such a loving gesture. A man has never told me that before". She then told me all the men in her life saw her as a sexual object and I was the first man to put her welfare above personal sexual desires. As well, that I saw value in her and wanted to continue a relationship without sex. To me, the gesture was nothing special. I just didn't want to hurt her and wanted to just be friends. Yet to her, it was a really big deal.

So what happened?  How does the story end?  Just friends?

[Forestluv]

@zambize We decided to go the friend route, yet I still picked up on emotional attachment and subtle suggestions that maybe sometime soon we can start a romantic relationship. For some reason I've been super in tune with it. She is a psychologist and a buddhist at a mature "observer + object" stage and she asked me to mirror back to her my intuitions. I decided it would be best to have some distance to allow the emotions and romance story to die down. We went three weeks without contact over the holiday and we have recently texted a couple times. I'd like to spend some time with her again, she is super cool. She has some paranormal stuff going on and we explore wild states of consciousness. Hopefully, the emotional attachment has died down. . . Yet, I also have an inner dynamic going on. I'm attracted various aspects of her. For me, sexual attraction is integrated with intellectual, emotional, creative, emphatic and physical realms. A lot of these are firing on all cylinders. I'm attracted to her and she is willing. It takes awareness and effort for me guide the dynamics away from the sexual energy that is present between us. 

[zambize]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@zambize We decided to go the friend route, yet I still picked up on emotional attachment and subtle suggestions that maybe sometime soon we can start a romantic relationship. For some reason I've been super in tune with it. She is a psychologist and a buddhist at a mature "observer + object" stage and she asked me to mirror back to her my intuitions. I decided it would be best to have some distance to allow the emotions and romance story to die down. We went three weeks without contact over the holiday and we have recently texted a couple times. I'd like to spend some time with her again, she is super cool. She has some paranormal stuff going on and we explore wild states of consciousness. Hopefully, the emotional attachment has died down. . . Yet, I also have an inner dynamic going on. I'm attracted various aspects of her. For me, sexual attraction is integrated with intellectual, emotional, creative, emphatic and physical realms. A lot of these are firing on all cylinders. I'm attracted to her and she is willing. It takes awareness and effort for me guide the dynamics away from the sexual energy that is present between us. 

That sounds about as tricky as most relationships haha, hopefully that all works out for you

[Emerald]

20 hours ago, CreamCat said:

Emerald says she doesn't like receiving too much sexual attention. But, whenever I hear about it, I become curious.

That sounds like something I haven't experienced. A new experience.

I want to live a year in the body of a 12 years old beautiful girl or a 25 years old sexy woman and feel what it's like to live as one and research how to maximally utilize what I have. It's always important to learn to utilize whatever you have. Perhaps, at the end of day, there will only be emptiness and existential hunger no matter what.

Well, it's very mixed feelings. So, it's wanting sexual attention and not wanting sexual attention simultaneously, because of the dual meaning and reaction to female sexuality in general. That coupled with being conditioned into understanding your value as the viewed and not the viewer and the object and the not the subject. 

So, there is a natural desire for sexual attention. Then there is a desire to want sexual attention for the sake of societal appreciation. Then, there is a desire to avoid sexual attention for fear of being reduced to that and to be painted into the box of both a consumer item and a devilish temptress. And for me, the latter wins out in most situations... simply because I feel very platonically toward most men.

So, being the projection screen for many societal shadows is difficult to do. And then, when you get past an age where that is possible to receive that projection from others it doesn't liberate you from it. It doesn't subjectify you to age. You are still objectified but seen as a lower quality and more disposable object. And if you continue to hold sexual feelings and desires, people will react with disgust. So, the way we view the feminine is to hyper-focus on the archetypes of the maiden and the temptress at the expense of the mother, the crone, and the wise-woman.

So, if you really want to know the experience you have to know it at every age. And you have to not just know it as someone who is beautiful and sexy and young. It's easy to be interested in springtime femininity as a man because it is the most socially appreciated for its utility to men. But you must also know what it is to move past springtime and summertime femininity and to deal with the death of beauty and the stripping away of perceived societal value from your objectified self. It is not just to be Snow White but to be the resentful aging queen who transforms into the hag wielding the death apple. 

There are many deaths in womanhood. If you really want to know... do you really want to die to yourself that many times?

It's hard to do. I know that if I were a man, that I never would have looked into this topic so deeply. I would have gotten comfortable with a simplified answer. And this is why few men will do the work, despite the interest. You don't have the inner conflict to spur you onward toward deeper levels of awareness. Chances are, that you'll find a comfortable understanding for you and will stop long before you reach the bottom with your awareness.

If a woman embarks upon this journey of understanding, ( and she may not begin for existential discomfort at the whole thing as it's very emotional and nauseating) but if she continues there is no place for her to get comfortable until she reaches the bottom where there is transformation to be had. All the pleasures of the psychosexual realm are spiked with pain and suffering for women. So, if she can continue to feel into her personal discomfort and existential crisis, she can reach the bottom eventually.

Not as to say a man couldn't do this. But it's just so easy to find a comfortable spot or to become fixated upon things of a sexual nature that feel good because they have no clear downside from the male perspective. In the psychosexual realm of the psyche, there is mostly pleasure there for men with little pain because of the ingrained patterns into our collective consciousness and our archetypal memory. So, when a man goes to explore the feminine, he usually only gets so deep before he is distracted by his sexual drives and loses consciousness. But contra-positively suffering necessitates increased consciousness, otherwise the suffering becomes unbearable. And this is why it's both harder and easier for women to explore this issue.

Men are more likely to be interested in this journey because it seems exciting and sexy, but they are unlikely to complete it because they get distracted. Women are less likely to be interested in this journey because it's scary and uncomfortable and you have to face with many monsters. But if a woman embarks upon this journey, she is more likely to complete it because there is no way out once you begin, and the only relief comes at the very end of the road.

So, again, I ask... do you really want to die that many times?